Another in our series of new transcriptions of contemporary articles on the Leo Frank case.
August 5th, 1913
Judge, Favoring Defense, Reserves Decision as to Striking Out Testimony
CONLEY CONTINUES TO WITHSTAND FIERCE ATTACKS OF ROSSER
Reuben Arnold created a sensation at the opening of Tuesday afternoon’s session of the Frank trial by making a motion that all of the revolting testimony concerning Leo Frank’s alleged conduct before the day of Mary Phagan’s murder be stricken out of the records. He also demanded that all of Jim Conley’s testimony in reference to watching at the door at Frank’s direction be expunged except the time he claims he watched on the day Mary Phagan was killed.
The contention resulted in practically a complete victory for the defense after a bitter legal battle. Judge Roan said that he would exclude from the records everything bearing on these alleged instances, except the negro’s testimony as to what occurred on the actual day of the crime. He said, however, he would hold himself ready to reverse his decision until he made his announcement to the jury Wednesday morning.
As the charges of degeneracy were being hurled at her husband by the Solicitor, young Mrs. Frank hung her head and finally unable to endure the ordeal longer left the courtroom. When she returned, her eyes were red and her cheeks flushed as from weeping. She breathed heavily and appeared to be making a brave effort to regain her composure. It was the first time she had broken down during the long trial. Frank’s mother left her place, a look of utter, wearied misery in her eyes, but a determination to be brave in every line of her face.
Attorney Arnold asked the judge to strike out not only all the testimony in direct examination in reference to Frank’s alleged conduct, but also all that has come out in cross-examination.
DORSEY FIGHTS FOR TESTIMONY.
Solicitor Dorsey insisted that the testimony was admissible and should remain in the records.
“We expect to sustain this man in all the charges he has made against the defendant,” declared the Solicitor. “We have other witnesses to establish the facts. We will bring them into this courtroom.
“This motion by the attorney for the defense is merely a trick to prevent us from bringing in these witnesses.
“The testimony is admissible because it indicates the very purpose, motive and intent the def[e]ndant had in getting that poor little girl into the metal room. It is admissible as indicating a general practice or course of conduct. The importance of this evidence, disgusting and abhorrent though it may be, is going to be made more manifest as the case proceeds.”
It was at this point that Mrs. Frank left the courtroom.
Arnold’s ground for the motion was that it was placing the defendant on trial for a crime other than the one for which he was indicted. He branded the negro as a base liar and a miserable wretch. Conley listened to the tirade unaffected.
The startling testimony was brought out during the day that Conley entered the factory before either Mary Phagan or Monteen Stover entered the building.
Quinn in his statement to the officers and before the Coroner’s inquest declared that he came into the factory between 12:20 and 12:25. The negro’s statement contradicts this utterly. Either Conley is lying again or Quinn is mistaken.
Solicitor Dorsey announced that he was ready to put Dalton, the mysterious man mentioned in Conley’s story, on the stand to corroborate the most revolting of the negro’s charges. He said he might also call Daisy Hopkins, the girl mentioned as a visitor to Frank’s office. The Solicitor said he had both witnesses where he could locate them.
CONLEY BLANDLY SAYS HE JUST FORGOT LIES
Perhaps no other witness in the history of the criminal trial procedures of Georgia has ever rivaled Jim Conley, the negro sweeper, in his peculiarly open admissions of previous falsehoods.
Conley on the stand blandly admits that his affidavits are so catacombed with lies th[a]t he doesn’t remember when, or to whom he told them.
“I knew when I told a lie,” he declared to Attorney Rosser, “and I knew it wouldn’t fit, and I’d have to change it, so I didn’t remember much else about it.”
STILL CLINGS TO MAIN STORY.
Conley, questioned and coaxed and wheedled and bullied for a total of nearly 11 hours, was still clinging tenaciously to his accusations against the factory superintendent when Rosser began his last desperate attack upon the negro’s story Tuesday afternoon.
He admitted that he had lied without count. He admitted that he lied in his first, second and even his third affidavits, the last of which had been described by the detectives as “the whole truth.” He confessed that he had lied for no reason in particular while he was making his third affidavit.
But every effort to force him to admit that he had lied when he said that Frank killed the girl and asked him to dispose of the […]
CONLEY STEADFASTLY STICKS TO HIS MAIN ACCUSATIONS
Under Blistering Fire From the Defense He Admits Changing His Story
WITNESS PROVES CUNNING IN ANSWERS, MEMORY IS BLANK TO MANY QUERIES
[…] body met with utter failure. He could not be budged an inch from this incriminating statement against Frank.
He might tell it in slightly different words. His story might show minor discrepancies, but he kept to his main accusation that Frank was the slayer of the girl and had so admitted to him.
Because Conley had at one time quoted Frank as saying that he had “picked up a little girl back there and let her fall” and now was declaring that the superintendent said: “I struck her and struck her too hard,” Rosser endeavored to corner the negro and force him to admit that he was lying in both instances. He was [1 word illegible] unsuccessful. Conley conceded that he might have quoted Frank wrongly, but asserted strongly that the circumstances were as he had related them.
Rosser until late in the forenoon confined himself mostly to a comparison of Conley’s statements in his affidavits and before the detectives with the story he had told in court. Conley was not at all reluctant to admit that he had been a liar from the beginning of the investigation into his part in the crime. He did maintain, however, that he was telling the truth on the stand.
The lawyer was able to direct suspicion most strongly at the story Conley now is telling by questioning him most closely about the incidents at the factory on the day of the crime.
Didn’t See Others Arrive.
He developed that Conley saw, or claimed he saw, E. F. Holloway, N. V. Darley, a “peg leg” negro, the Phagan girl, Lemmie Quinn and Monteen Stover as they entered or left the factory that day, while he was on the first floor near the stairs.
He testified, however, that he did not see Corinthia Hall, Emma Clark, Alonzo Mann, Hattie Hall, Mrs. May Barrett or Mrs. Arthur White.
Hattie Hall and Alonzo Mann left the building at 12 o’clock. Quinn, according to Conley, entered and left at about 12 o’clock. How he could have seen Quinn and missed seeing the other two persons he was unable to explain.
Conley declared that Quinn entered the factory and left before Mary Phagan came in. He said that he had heard the Phagan girl’s scream before Monteen Stover came in the factory. After the Stover girl entered he testified that he went to sleep and was aroused by Frank stamping on the floor above.
This was the signal agreed upon, said Conley, and he went and locked the outside door. A little later Frank whistled and he went up stairs.
“He asked me if I’d seen a girl come up here,” Conley said. “I told him I’d seen two and that I’d only seen one of them leave.
“’Well,’ he said to me, ‘you know that little girl that came up here. I went back with her to the metal department to see about some work. I wanted to be with her and she refused me. I struck her and struck her too hard.’”
Held Back Part of Story.
Asked why he didn’t tell the whole truth, even in his last affidavit, Conley could only reply that he didn’t want to tell all his story against Frank at once. Rosser got the negro to say that he had talked with Solicitor Dorsey six or seven times and had added to, or changed his story slightly each time.
It was the persistent endeavor of Rosser to get before the jury the fact that Conley in his third affidavit had said he was telling “the whole truth,” and yet, when there was no apparent reason for holding anything back had continued to lie about the events of the day and had kept a dark secret that he was in the factory early in the morning.
If Conley’s third affidavit was now admittedly false in many respects, althought [sic] Conley declared it was the truth when he was making it, what reason was there to believe that this tale Conley had told the jury had in it much else than falsehood?
This was the question that Rosser evidently was trying to place in the minds of each of the twelve jurors.
Rosser got Conley to say that he lied about the time he got up, about the time he left home, about the time he first went to the factory, about the time he bought a flask of whisky, about the time he first met Frank, and about the length of time that Frank stayed at Montag Brothers, and about the time N. V. Darley and Miss Mattie Smith left the factory.
Rosser Suddenly Shifts.
Rosser suddenly shifted from his examination of Conley as to his previous statement and began to question him about the crime itself.
He took up in rapid sequence the various phases of Conley’s story of the events just before and just following 12 o’clock on the day that Mary Phagan was killed—the entrance and departure of factory employees, the coming of Mary Phagan, the girl’s scream in the rear of the factory, the visit of Monteen Stover to the factory, and finally the disposal of Mary Phagan’s dead body by Conley at the direction of Frank.
During a brief recess a strychnine tablet was given Conley as a bracer for the ordeal through which he was pass.
Just as it appeared that Rosser had reached the point where he proposed to go after the negro in savage fashion, Attorney Hooper broke in with a strenuous objection to the manner in which Frank’s lawyer was seeking to impeach the witness.
He insisted that all the affidavits be read to Conley where it was desired to question him in regard to events he had told of previously.
Judge Roan ruled in favor of the defense and the questioning proceeded along the same lines.
Rosser evidently was determined to break the negro down in short order, as he started off in his quick, aggressive fashion, and with little of the easy manner of his early questioning of the day before.
Conley was as unconcerned and cool as when he first went on the stand to tell his remarkable story. He answered the questions readily and refused to be confused or mixed.
Rosser at once began asking him concerning his part in the crime. He brought out the contraindications in Conley’s various sworn statements.
Q. You had your second talk with Black and Scott on May 24?–A. I disremember.
Q. Jim, you told them you wrote the notes on Friday, didn’t you?–A. Yes, I told them I wrote them on Friday.
Q. Then they told you the notes wouldn’t fit?–A. No, sir, they didn’t tell me that.
Q. They didn’t tell you the notes didn’t fit in with the other part of the story?–A. No, sir.
Q. You remember a lot of other things, but you don’t remember that?–A. No, sir, I don’t remember that.
Q. Didn’t Mr. Black and Mr. Scott tell you that your statement about writing the notes on Friday was all rot, and you’d have to change it to make your story true?–A. No, sir, they didn’t tell me anything like that.
Q. They tried their best to get you to change your statement on May 27, and you wouldn’t do it, would you, Jim?–A. They questioned me, but they didn’t try to make me change my statement.
Fails to Remember.
Q. They didn’t question you at all.–A. They asked me if that was all, and I said yes.
Q. That was on May 27, wasn’t it?–A. I disremember.
Q. But it was after you had made your second statement?–A. I don’t know.
Q. Well, didn’t Lanford and his detectives stay with you a whole day and stick closer than a brother?–A. No, sir. They talked to me in a long while but they never stuck by me all day.
Q. But they told you your statement didn’t sound right?–A. No, sir, they never told me that.
Q. What did they talk to you about for four hours a day?–A. They talked to me about a whole lot, about different things.
Q. What did they talk about?–A. They asked me if I knew Mr. Frank.
Q. Don’t you remember anything else?–A. They asked me all about Mr. Frank.
Q. Did Mr. Black talk to you?–A. Yes, sir, he talked to me a whole lot.
Q. On May 28 you made a third statement, or was it your second?–A. I think it was the third.
Q. Didn’t you say a while ago that you made a second statement on May 28? Now you say it was the third. Which was right?–A. I think it was the third, but I am not sure.
Q. Why did you change the time you told them you wrote the notes?–A. I thought they might think something wrong if I stuck to the first.
Q. You liked headquarters, didn’t you?–A. Yes.
Q. You volunteered to go down there, didn’t you?–A. Yes.
Dorsey: “I object to that. The papers would be the best evidence.”
Attorneys in Clash.
Judge Roan said:
“He can show where he had been.”
Dorsey objected to what he termed “secondary evidence.”
“I am going to show the whole thing—that he was released and arrested—one of the biggest farces in Atlanta, and I will introduce the papers at the proper time.”
Dorsey withdrew his objection.
“Then I withdraw the statement that I will put the papers in evidence,” said Rosser.
Dorsey then renewed his objection.
Judge Roan repeated that Rosser could show where Conley had been.
Solicitor Dorsey deliberately laughed at the judge’s ruling and took his seat.
Questioned About Breakfast.
Q. You told the detectives you saw the clock on the negro university and told the time by that.–A. I told them I saw the clock.
Q. Didn’t you tell them it was 9 o’clock?—A. I don’t recall.
Q. What did you have for breakfast?–A. Some liver and tea.
Q. What time did you get up that morning, not what time you told the detectives?–A. About 6 o’clock.
Q. What else did you have for breakfast?–A. I think that was all I told you a while ago.
Q. Didn’t you have some sausage?—A. There was some on the table. I don’t know whether I ate any or not.
Q. Don’t you know a nigger never had sausage on the table without eating it?–A. I reckon so.
Told Them of Saloons.
Q. Well, you told them you went to Peters street, didn’t you?–A. Yes.
Q. Why didn’t you tell me that a while ago?–A. Well, I told you if you would it to me I’d tell you whether it was right or not.
Q. If I’ll repeat the story you’ve learned you will know whether it’s right or not.–A. Yes, sir; I’ll know whether it’s what I said or not.
Q. Did you tell them anything about Peters street?–A. Yes, sir.
Q. This time?–A. I don’t know whether it was that time or not.
Q. You didn’t tell them this the first time on May 18 what saloons you went to on Peters street, did you? A. I don’t know when I told them, but I told them.
Q. Did you tell them about buying some whisky?–A. Yes, sir; I bought some whisky, but I don’t know when I told them.
Q. What time did you say you bought the whisky?–A. About 11 o’clock.
Q. And that wasn’t the truth?–A. No, sir.
Why He Changed Time.
Q. What time did you buy it?–A. About 8 o’clock.
Q. Have you changed your time because you wanted to be at the factory the same time Mr. Frank was?–A. I was there at the same time Mr. Frank was.
Q. What did you change your statement for?–A. Well, I don’t want to put myself at the factory twice. There wasn’t nothing doing there and I didn’t want to put myself there.
Q. Jim, is that all the reason you got—you didn’t want to put yourself at the factory when there wasn’t nothing doing?–A. Yes, sir.
Q. Jim, all these lies—I won’t call them lies, I’ll call them stories—did you notice them before you went to jail or afterwards?–A. I disremember.
Q. Then you don’t know whether you told those things before you went to jail or not?–A. Yes, sir; I think it was after I went to jail.
Q. Well, you made all these elaborate changes after you got out of jail and was taken to police station? A. Yes, sir; I guess I did.
Q. Jim, to whom did you make the first change in your confession?–A. I disremember.
Q. What? You told all those lies, and don’t remember when you told them or to whom?–A. No, sir; I don’t remember. I know when I told a lie I knew it wouldn’t fit and I’d have to change it, so I didn’t remember much about it.
Q. Jim, you had already give yourself away, why didn’t you tell all the truth?
“Your honor, I object,” said Mr. Dorsey. “Let him examine this witness but he can’t comment and dispute with him.”
“Does this court mean that I can’t refresh his memory about an answer he has just made?” asked Rosser.
“There should be a wide latitude in the examination of this witness and I don’t object to it,” said Mr. Dorsey. “You can keep him here until Saturday night, if you want. I won’t object.”
Defense Loses Ruling.
“Your attitude doesn’t count in that,” said Mr. Rosser.
“I rule that you can not dispute with the witness,” said Judge Roan.
Q. Jim, the first time you told about Mr. Frank and the little girl you told them you were going to tell the truth, didn’t you?–Yes, sir.
Q. Didn’t you say that the first time that you got down to the factory it was 10 or 10:30? You told them the last time, too, didn’t you?—A. I told Mr. Scott and Mr. Black.
Q. When did you get that wine?—A. I got that at Mr. Early’s.
Q. Who waited on you?—A. Mr. Early.
Q. How did you get it, though[t] you said you didn’t buy any?—A. I told Mr. Early to put some wine in my beer—that’s what I told you.
Q. When did you get it?—A. Saturday.
Didn’t Say He Bought It.
Q. Now, Jim, why didn’t you tell the truth at first?—A. I did tell the truth. I corrected that.
Q. Why did you tell them 11 o’clock?—A. I never told them 11 o’clock.
Q. How much beer did you tell them you drank before you went to the factory?—A. I don’t know how much I told them. I drank five or six.
Q. You told them you bought six beers, didn’t you?—A. No, sir.
Q. You told them you bought some wine?—A. I never told them I bought any wine. I told them something about having some wine.
Q. Didn’t you tell me that yesterday?—A. No, sir.
Q. You are sure about that?—A. Yes.
Q. Now you have a bad memory, haven’t you?—A. It’s better now than it was yesterday.
Both Frank and his wife smiled at this answer.
Telling “Natural Truth.”
Q. Now your memory is improving; are you sure you are telling the truth?—A. Yes, sir; I am telling the natural truth. I am looking right at you.
Q. But your memory is bad? That is, it was bad yesterday, but it’s good today? What kind of a memory’s that?—A. I don’t know, sir.
Q. Didn’t you tell them that you went to the Capital City Laundry?—A. I told Mr. Frank I was going there.
Q. But didn’t you tell the detectives that? Didn’t you tell them that after drinking the whisky that you met Mr. Frank at the corner of Forsyth and Nelson streets?—A. I must have said that if they have it down there.
Q. But I really want to know if you told them that?—A. I don’t know.
Q. Now, look here. What’s the matter with your memory, Jim? Didn’t you tell them that you went straight from Peters street and met Mr. Frank the first time that morning at Nelson and Forsyth streets?—A. I told them I met him there.
Q. But before you went to the factory?—I told him I met him there.
Insists He Is Telling Truth.
Q. But you told them you met him there after you went to the factory—that you were there at the factory but one time that day?—A. I told them I was at the factory.
Q. The first time you talked to the detectives, you told them that you met Mr. Frank at Nelson and Forsyth streets, and that you had already been to the factory—that you went to the factory but one time that day—A. I went straight from Peters street to the factory.
Q. Look here, Jim; I want to know the truth about this.—A. I is telling the truth.
Q. You said you only went to the factory once and met Mr. Frank after you left?—A. I disremember what I said.
Q. What officer did you tell that to?—A. I can’t recall.
Q. Was that before or after you got out of jail?—A. I don’t know; I think it was before.
Repeats What Frank Said.
Q. You told him you met him at Nelson and Forstyh streets?—A. I don’t know.
Q. What did he say to you?—A. He said, “Ha, ha, you are here, are you?”
Q. Why didn’t you tell the officers?—A. I disremember.
Q. Didn’t you tell those officers that you told him you were going to see your mother when you met him at Nelson and Forsyth streets?—A. I don’t remember what I told them about that.
Q. Didn’t you tell the officers that he was at Montag’s about twenty minutes?—A. Yes.
Q. How do you know?—A. It seemed that long to me.
Q. Don’t you know you stayed there about an hour?—A. No.
Q. You haven’t any idea?—A. No; I can only guess.
Q. Why didn’t you tell that yesterday?—A. You didn’t ask me.
Refreshes Rosser’s Memory.
Q. You said yesterday Mr. Frank didn’t say anything to you from the time you left Nelson and Forsyth streets until you got in the factory?—A. I told you yesterday Mr. Frank said something to me as we were passing Mr. Alverson’s store.
Q. Didn’t you tell the detectives that?—A. No, sir.
Q. You didn’t say anything about it until you had got out of jail?—A. I don’t think I did.
Q. What time did you get out of jail?—A. I disremember.
Q. Why didn’t you tell the detectives about bumping into somebody?—A. I did tell them.
Q. Did they write it down?—A. I don’t know, sir.
Q. Why didn’t you tell the police about Mr. Frank wanting you to watch for him?—A. I did.
Q. Where?—A. I disremember.
Q. You disremember a whole lot, don’t you? Why didn’t you tell the police about Mr. Frank’s stamping his feet?—A. I did.
Parries With Rosser.
Q. Who did you tell?—A. I told Mr. Black, Mr. Starnes, Mr. Scott and Mr. Campbell.
Q. You told those people everything?—A. Sometimes they were not all there.
Q. When?—A. I disremember.
Q. You told the detectives Miss Mattie Smith was the first one you saw go into the factory after you got back from Montag’s—A. If it is down there, I said it.
Q. I am not talking about what is down here. Who did you see go in there first?—A. I think it was Mr. Darley.
Q. Did you say yesterday Mr. Darley was the first one to go in after you got back from Montag’s?—A. No, sir, I didn’t say that.
Q. And you didn’t see Miss Smith?—A. No, sir, not then.
Q. Oh, you saw her, then, before you went to Montag’s?—A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then you lied to the detectives?—A. If I told them Miss Smith was the first one I saw go up after I got back from Montag’s.
Q. What time did Mr. Darley leave the factory? You said about 10 o’clock?—A. No, sir, I said it was later than that.
Stayed at Factory an Hour.
Q. What time was it?—A. About 11 o’clock. Some time after we got back from Montag’s.
Q. What time did Miss Mattie Smith leave?—A. I don’t know exactly.
Q. About what time?—A. Well, about 9 o’clock, I guess.
Q. Then you stayed at the factory an hour?—A. Yes, sir, I guess I did.
Q. Did Mr. Holloway come down before or after you came in from Montag’s?—A. He came down after we got back.
Q. Could he have seen you?—A. Yes, if he had looked.
Q. How could he see you?—A. I had my feet stuck out.
Q. What time did Mr. Holloway leave?—A. I can’t tell.
Q. How long after Mr. Darley left did Mr. Holloway leave?—A. I can’t tell.
Q. Give your best estimate?—A. About 15 minutes.
Can’t Recall What He Said.
Q. After Mr. Holloway left, who was the next person you saw come in? Who did you tell the police?—A. I think Quinn came in.
Q. Did you tell the police that?—A. I can’t recall.
Q. Did you tell them a lady in green came up after Mr. Holloway?—A. I don’t know.
Q. You didn’t tell them?—A. I might have.
Q. Was that right or a lie?—A. It wasn’t true.
Q. When did you explain it to the police?—A. After I left the jail.
Q. When did you say Quinn went in?—A. I think I told them he was the last one.
Q. Didn’t you tell the officers you saw Mr. Holloway come in and right after him a lady in green?—A. Yes, I think so.
Q. Why did you tell that?—A. I must have been mistaken.
Q. Did you tell the officers she remained there five or six minutes?—A. I might have, but I was mistaken.
Q. How many mistakes did you make?—A. I don’t know.
Q. Who did you correct them with?—A. I don’t know. I don’t think they asked me about it.
Q. After the lady in green came down, how long was it before anybody else came up?—A. I can’t think.
Q. All the people you told the officers you saw go up were Darley. Mattie Smith, Holloway and the woman in green?—A. Yes, I reckon so.
Q. You told them that four people were there.
Wasn’t there four witnesses against you—couldn’t they connect you with the crime?
“I object to that question, your Honor,” interrupted Solicitor Dorsey. “It is a question for argument.”
Rosser: “Can’t I show that people saw him or didn’t see him, to show some object in his being there.”
Judge Roan: “I think so.”
Dorsey: “Do I understand Your […]
SWEEPER CUNNINGLY WITHSTANDS ROSSER’S FIERCE ATTACK
Admits Previous Falsehoods, but His Main Story Stands Unyielding
CONLEY GLIBLY EXPLAINS DISCREPANCIES IN STORY OR BLAMES BAD MEMORY
[…] Honor rules that question is admissible?”
Judge Roan: “Ask your question, Mr. Rosser.”
Dorsey sat down smiling.
During Mr. Rosser’s questioning a number of the members of the jury were inattentive. It was obvious that Mr. Rosser was postponing the climax of his cross-examination for some time ahead.
More and more it was apparent that he was endeavoring to weary the negro down before making a real effort to impeach him.
The strategy with which he preserved his own strength was undisguised. He kept his seat and asked most of his questions in an even, natural voice. The Rosser who had fired the lightning questions at Newt Lee and the Rosser who had crushed John Black was not yet in action.
Q. You did know that four other people had gone up and down the steps who could have seen you?—A. Yes, sir; they could have seen me.
Q. And you wouldn’t tell the others because you were afraid they might have told on you?—A. Yes, sir.
Didn’t Think of Them.
Q. What did you think about the four who had seen you?—A. I didn’t think about them.
Rosser—That is just what I thought.
Q. When did you correct your statement about whom you saw?—A. At the police station to Mr. Starnes and Mr. Campbell and Mr. Black and Mr. Dorsey.
Q. How many times did Mr. Dorsey see you in jail?—A. About three times.
Q. How many times did he see you at the police station?—A. About four times.
Q. Then it took Mr. Dorsey seven visits to get your story straight? Why didn’t you tell it all before he had been to see you seven times?—A. I didn’t want to tell it all at first.
Q. You had already told so much that what you were holding back could not help Mr. Frank?—A. I don’t know so.
Q. Well, why didn’t you tell it?—A. I just wanted to keep back a little all the time. I didn’t want to tell it all at once.
Q. You had a whole lot of other stories to take back and correct didn’t you?—A. No, sir; I didn’t have no other stories to take back.
Admits He Corrected Story.
Q. What about telling the police about buying whisky at 11 o’clock when you bought it at 8, and about seeing various people at times you didn’t see them?—A. Yes, sir; I had to correct them.
Q. To whom did you correct them? A. Mr. Starnes, Mr. Campbell and Mr. Dorsey.
At this point the jury went out for a breathing spell.
Q. You told the officers that when you left the factory that day that you went to a moving picture show?—A. No, sir.
Q. But didn’t you say that in an affidavit?
Dorsey objected to the point of questioning and was sustained.
Q. On the 28th of May, in the presence of Scott, Black and other detectives in the city of Atlanta, Fulton County, Georgia, didn’t you make the statement that you had gone to a moving picture show?—A. I guess so, if it’s down there.
Fails to Remember.
Q. Didn’t you tell the officers you went back to Peters street?—A. Yes.
Q. How long did you stay there?—A. About ten or fifteen minutes.
Q. How many beers did you take?—A. I don’t know.
Q. Didn’t you supplement your statement of May 28 or May 29?—A. I don’t know.
Q. Was that the truth?—A. All except the time.
Q. You didn’t tell about moving the girl?—A. I don’t know.
Q. When was the first time you told about watching Mr. Frank?—A. I don’t know.
Q. Was it before or after you left the jail?—A. I don’t know.
Q. Were Detectives Black and Scott there?—A. I don’t know. There were two men there.
Q. You don’t know when you told Mr. Dorsey that?—A. I forget.
Q. Now, Jim, you can’t tell me anything about these additions you made to these statements?—A. No.
Knew It Was Before 2 o’Clock.
Q. Well, you saw Mr. Dorsey six or seven times?—A. Yes.
Q. Now you say that when Mr. Frank spoke to you Miss Willis heard him?—A. I don’t know that she heard him.
Q. Well, what time was that?—A. About 2 o’clock.
Q. How do you know?—A. It was after Mr. Frank had come back from dinner.
Q. How do you know he had come back from dinner?—A. I was looking out of the window and saw him coming from Alabama street.
Q. Well, this Saturday you and Mr. Frank got to the factory at the same time—you met at the door?—A. Yes, sir, he got there just a little before me.
Q. Didn’t you go in together?—A. Yes, sir, he went in ahead.
Q. Where did he go.—A. He went on upstairs.
Q. What time was it you locked the door?—A. I don’t know.
Q. Give your best estimate.—A. I don’t know.
Q. Was it 1 o’clock?—A. I know it was earlier than that, because I heard the screaming and stamping before that.
Q. You locked the door before he stamped?—A. When he stamped I locked the door.
Left Door Unlocked.
Q. When did you unlock it?—A. When he whistled.
Q. Was that before he went upstairs?—A. Yes, sir.
Q. The door was unlocked while you were upstairs, then?—A. Yes.
Q. Anybody could have come in and gone out, couldn’t they?—A. Yes.
Q. Don’t you know you locked that door and left it locked?—A. No, sir.
Q. You say that when you met Mr. Frank at the factory he went in ahead of you. Didn’t you say yesterday that you went in together?—A. I expect I did say something like that.
Q. Whey do you change to-day?—A. Well, we were right there together. He went in ahead of me.
Q. What did he say to you about you wanting to go to the laundry?—A. He didn’t say that to me right then. He said when I met him at the factory that I was a little early for what he wanted me to do and said he did not want me to let Mr. Darley know about it.
Q. Now, Jim, didn’t you say that yesterday?—A. I disremember.
Hooper Strenuously Objects.
Q. Now, Jim, I want to know just what you said to me yesterday. You know that you didn’t say that. I want to know what you said next—“
Attorney Hooper interrupted with a strenuous objection.
“We object to him questioning the witness as to what he said next,” said Hooper. “Such questions can only be for the purpose of impeaching the witness. In the eyes of the law what he said yesterday is written testimony. The stenographer took it down and the stenographer can read the notes to him. It is not fair to the witness, especially a witness who has been on the stand for a day to make him give the logical sequence to his testimony. In a matter of cross-examination like this when a witness is questioned rapidly it is neither fair to him nor right in the eyes of common fairness to attempt to thus impeach him. The law makes it plain that the questions and answers of the day before should be read to him and left to him to either qualify, affirm or deny.”
Rosser replied: “Your honor, we are simply trying to test this witness’ memory. We are attempting to find out if he can tell the truth twice, or if he can lie twice. He has already lied. We want to test his memory of his parrot-like story of yesterday, and we have the right to test his memory.”
Judge Roan overruled the objection, declaring that the defense had the right to test the witness’ memory by asking if he had said those things.
GRIM FLASHES OF TRAGIC HUMOR AS CONLEY REPEATS STORY OF HORROR
Grim as is the trial of Leo M. Frank there have been flashes of tragic humor which have even made the defendant smile, while a reference of the negro Jim Conley to his two feet when Attorney Luther Z. Rosser was attempting to get him to explain the “width of two feet” caused a general laugh.
Conley was telling of the cloth in which he had wrapped the lifeless form of little Mary Phagan. He described the cloth as “being as tall as him and about that wide,” (holding his hands about two feet apart).
Rosser asked him if the cloth was about two feet wide and the negro said he didn’t know. Asked if he knew what two feet was he pointed to his own. Officers had to rap for order several times before the laughter ceased.
Tells of Meeting Frank.
Q. Jim, you told the officers first that you met Mr. Frank accidentally on Forsyth street.—A. I disremember.
Q. You were at Nelson and Forsyth streets at 10:30?—A. Between 10 and 10:30.
Q. You saw Mr. Frank going to Montag’s and how long he stayed? You don’t know you said about an hour?—A. Yes, sir, about that.
Q. When you started back to the factory, then, it was about 11:30?—A. I guess so.
Q. When Mr. Frank saw you what did he say?—A. “Ha, ha, you are here, are you?”
Q. How many times did? Say it again.—A. Ha, ha, ha, ha.
Q. That makes four times.—A. The way I say it it seems like twice.
Q. What else did he say?—A. He said: “Ha, ha, ha, ha, I see you are here, are you. I will see you as soon as I go to Sid Montag’s.”
Q. He didn’t give you any new instructions? Just told you to wait?—A. That was all. I didn’t know what he wanted.
Q. What was it he wanted with you at Nelson street? Got no idea?—A. No, sir, I don’t know.
Q. Just had you go up there for no reason in the world? He told you he was going to move a body—to come and chat with him a while?—A. Yes, sir; he told me that, and then in a little while he told me again.
Told to Shut Door.
Q. He repeated it to you? You didn’t say anything about this yesterday, did you?—A. Yes, sir; I did.
Q. What else did he say?—A. He said for me to shut the door and nobody could get in unless they had a key.
Q. You did not say anything about a key yesterday?—A. Yes, sir; if I didn’t, you cut me off.
Q. Mr. Dorsey was questioning you. He didn’t cut you off, did he?—A. If I didn’t tell him that, he cut me off.
Q. Now, you got back to Montag Brothers. Who was the first person you saw go upstairs?—A. The first one was a lady in a green dress who worked upstairs. I don’t know her name.
Q. Was that before you saw Mr. Holloway and that peg-leg nigger drayman?—A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time was it?—A. I don’t know, sir.
Q. How long was it after you got back?—A. About five minutes.
Q. How long did she stay?—A. I don’t know.
Q. About how long?—A. I don’t know; a pretty good while.
Q. How long after the woman went up did the peg-leg nigger come?—A. I don’t know, sir.
Q. How long did he stay?—A. He didn’t stay no time.
Q. How long after that did Mr. Holloway come?—A. Not long.
Q. Give me your best estimate?—A. I don’t know.
Q. What else happened?—A. Mr. Darley come down then; Mr. Holloway come down and then the lady in green come down, and then Lemmie Quinn come down.
Saw Persons Enter Factory.
Q. Lemmie Quinn came up and went down before Monteen Stover?—A. Yes.
Q. You are sure of that?—A. No, the dead girl came up before she did, and the lady in green, too.
Q. You didn’t see the office boy?—A. No.
Q. Miss Hall?—A. No.
Q. The office boy?—A. No.
Q. May Barrett?—A. No.
Q. You didn’t see any of those folks I just named?—A. No.
Q. What did you do while you waited?—A. I got water.
Q. Where?—A. Near the elevator door.
Q. Q. You say when Monteen Stover came in you just went to sleep?—A. No.
Q. You locked the door, then?—A. No; when the girl left.
Q. When did you go to sleep?—A. After she left.
Q. When was it you heard those screams—before or after Monteen Stover went up there?—A. It was before.
Q. Was it before you went to sleep that you heard those footsteps going back there?—A. It was right after the little girl went in.
Q. When was it you first told the detectives about those footsteps?—A. I don’t know.
Q. When did you tell them about the scream?—A. I don’t know.
Q. Whom did you tell?—A. Detective Starnes, Campbell and Lanford.
Q. Was it before or after you left the jail?—A. I think it was after.
Q. Were you asleep when you heard those screams?—A. No; that was just before Monteen came in, then a-running on tiptoe.
Q. You didn’t wake up until you heard the stamping?—A. No.
Q. Was he stamping when you woke?—A. I don’t know. I heard the knocking when I woke.
Q. What did you do?—A. I kicked on the elevator door.
Q. Why didn’t you tell the detectives that?—A. I did tell one of them.
Q. What kind of shoes did the woman in green have on?—A. I don’t know.
Q. You didn’t notice?—A. No.
Q. Isn’t it a fact that you didn’t notice anybody’s shoes but the Stover girl’s?—A. Yes.
Q. Why do you know about her?—A. I couldn’t hear her walk and noticed her shoes.
Saw Frank Trembling.
Q. How long did the girl in green stay up there?—A. About fifteen minutes.
Q. I thought you told me yesterday you couldn’t tell?—A. Yes; I am only guessing at that now.
Q. How long did the Stover girl stay up there?—A. It seemed about like five minutes.
Q. After Frank stamped, he whistled, and you went on upstairs?—A. Yes.
Q. When did you tell the detectives that?—A. I don’t know.
Q. It wasn’t very long between the time you heard him stamp and heard him whistle?—A. It didn’t seem very long.
Q. You went upstairs, and what did you see?—A. I saw Mr. Frank standing there trembling.
Q. Now, when did you tell this? You didn’t say anything about it when you first told about helping carry the body?—A. I don’t know whether I told it then or not; I did tell it, I know.
Q. To whom?—A. Mr. Starnes, Mr. Campbell and Mr. Dorsey, too.
Q. Did you tell all the truth then?—A. I intended to tell it all.
Q. You told all you know, did you?—A. I tried to tell all I remembered.
Frank Told Him to Hurry.
Q. You said Frank had a cord in his hand. What did he do?—A. He told me to hurry, and he threw the cord toward his office.
Q. Was that the first thing he said?—A. He asked me if I saw that little girl go out. I told him I saw on go out, but I saw one go up who ain’t come back down. He said, “Um humph.”
Q. Those very words?—A. That’s what I said.
Q. Well, what else did he say?—A. He said: “Yes, I wanted to be with the little girl, and she refused me.” He said: “I struck the little girl and struck her too hard.”
Q. Jim, when did you get this revelation? When you said you told the whole truth, why didn’t you tell it?—A. I meant to tell it.
Q. You said all of that yesterday?—A. Yes.
Q. You are certain of that?—A. I don’t know if I did, I intended to.
Q. You didn’t say anything about money yesterday, don’t you know that?—A. No, I don’t remember.
Q. When did you tell the officers?—A. I don’t know.
Q. What did he strike her with?—A. I don’t know. He just said he struck her too hard.
Q. Why didn’t you tell the police that on May 29?—A. I think I told one of them.
Q. Didn’t you say this (reading from the affidavit of May 29): “He there”?—A. I reckon so, but I told picked up a girl and dropped her back also about striking her.
Q. Did Frank say anything about the girl being dead when he told you to go back there and get her?—A. No.
Q. What did he say?—A. He just told me to go back there and get her and “bring her up here.”
Q. That was all he said?—A. No, he said: “We will have to get her out of here.”
Q. What did you do?—A. I went back there.
Q. You found her near the toilet in the dressing room?—A. Yes.
Q. You know where the ladies’ toilet is?—A. Yes.
Q. Now you went back there and found a cord around her neck? And a part of her underclothes?—A. Yes, sir; I found her with a knot back of her head, like her head had been raised up off the floor and a cord put around it.
Q. You just know that knot was at the back of her head?—A. No, sir; I looked at it close.
Q. Why didn’t you tell the detectives this?—A. I think I did.
Q. You said he told you to bring her “up here.” Didn’t you tell the detectives he told you to bring her up to the elevator?—A. Not about that time. When Mr. Frank dropped her feet. I told them he said to take her to the elevator.
Q. Jim, you went back there and hollered to Mr. Frank, you told the detectives.—A. I didn’t holler. I went outside the door and told him she was dead.
Q. Now, when Mr. Frank whistled for you, you looked at the clock?—A. No, sir, not then.
Q. When did you look at the clock?—A. Well, when I saw the little girl was dead, he told me to bring her up there and I asked him, “How was I to move her.” He said to go back and get a cloth by the clock-box.
Q. Don’t tell me all that, just answer […]
Conley Admits Lying, but Claims to Tell Truth Now
[…] swer my question.—A. Well, I was trying to explain.
Q. I don’t want you to go off on an explaining excursion. You looked at the clock when you went to get the cloth to move the body?—A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time was it?—A. Four minutes to 1 o’clock.
Q. Jim, when you talked to the detectives that time, you were telling all that you knew. You didn’t say anything about getting that cloth?—A. I intended to.
Q. What sort of a cloth was it? Like that burlap you had up here the other day?—A. No, sir, it wasn’t like that. It was striped.
Q. How wide was it?—A. I don’t know exactly.
Q. Was it two feet?—A. Yes, sir, I guess it was two foot.
Q. What is two feet?—A. Like these. (Conley pointed to his feet.)
Q. What then did you do with the body?—A. I turned it on to the cloth and wrapped it up.
Q. Now, when you were talking to Black and Scott, you didn’t say anything about coming up to Frank before you went and got the cloth to wrap the little girl in?—A. No, sir, I don’t remember saying that.
At this time court adjourned until 2 o’clock.
Asks Ruling Out of Testimony.
When the court was resumed Reuben Arnold asked that the jury be excluded while he made a motion. When the jurors had left, he asked that all the testimony relating to Frank’s alleged degeneracy be ruled out.
“We move to exclude all evidence about this negro watching for Frank on other occasions,” said Arnold. “We propose to withdraw all cross-examination on this subject.
“Your Honor, the stuff is too vile to be read before these women. I’ll show it to Your Honor and to the attorneys for the prosecution.
“Our motion is to exclude this testimony on the ground that it is irrelevant.”
“Now, I want to bring to the attention of the court,” continued Arnold, “that this was not brought out on cross-examination. It was put in for nothing in the world but to prejudice the jury against this man, and we propose to rule out our cross-examination on those questions. We want to rule out the fact that he watched and what he claims he saw.”
Attorney Hooper said that when the defense did not object when that question was put and answered it seemed to him they were too late.
“There is every reason why it should be admitted,” he said. “They have had the full benefit of the cross-examination. I am almost positive they forfeited the right to get this ruled out when they didn’t ask for it at the time they were admitted.”
Before ruling, the Judge called for authorities.
“We appeal to your honor,” continued the Solicitor, “that such a motion is unfair and we submit this evidence as admissible as an original proposition.”
“That’s the authority we want to hear,” said Rosser.
“The defense has offered no authority and I daresay they won’t,” retorted Dorsey.
“When one of the prosecution,” said Rosser, “admits in the beginning that it was inadmissible originally, I think we at least are entitled to an authority from his assoc[i]ate.”
Dorsey proceeded to read authorities. The argument was that the evidence established a course of conduct and established intent and motive.
Leo Frank kept his eyes fixed on Dorsey during the argument. His expression was the same enigma as always.
Judge Ends Argument.
“I submit that as an original proposition this evidence is admissible.”
Judge Roan: “Well, that ends the argument.”
Dorsey adds that there was also the proposition of being too late. He asked the defense to cite their authority.
Rosser said: “I have too much respect for the court to trot out the authorities.”
Dorsey retorted: “Run them out, anyway, just so you get them out.”
Rosser replied: “No matter how I brought them out you wouldn’t understand them.”
“Your honor,” said Dorsey, “as a commonsense proposition, it is not fair for the defense to remain silent when this evidence was first submitted, then cross-question this witness for two days and get all the benefit they can possibly hope to get and then to move to withdraw the evidence.”
Fixed Trap for State.
“They would withdraw this evidence and make the impression on the jury that we are unable to support this witness. I’ll tell the court that we expect to introduce witnesses and back them up. When they see how powerful ti is after a vain effort to derive a benefit from it for two days they would withdraw it all to leave the State high and dry.”
Mrs. Frank, the prisoner’s wife, was absent for the first time since the trial opened. She left the room when Dorsey started his accusations in the course of his argument. The mother kept her seat by the side of her son.
“The course of conduct sworn to by this witness will be amply corroborated. It is a powerful thing to show that this man killed little Mary Phagan as will be shown later on. Your honor, we ask that you go slow before deciding to rule out this evidence. The courts are to show justice and I defy the mto [sic] cite an authority from the textbooks written in the last five years that sustains their motion,” said Dorsey.
When Solicitor Dorsey concluded and Reuben Arnold arose to speak Mrs. Frank returned to her seat beside her husband, her eyes wet with tears.
“It is not any use to get excited over this proposition. Now the person who is hurt by this poisonous evidence is this defendant here. In a criminal case you can’t try a man for but one crime. It is a simple question of law. I sympathize with that poor little girl and think the man who throttled her life out should punished. We came here to try a case of murder and this miserable wretch on the stand comes here and charges capital crime. Any white man should be ashamed to believe it. Now, we don’t want to come here and try this other disgusting and vile charge. It is absolutely irrelevant. They put him on the stand and it is up to them to bolster up his tale. Why, we would have to stay, trying this case, and investigating other cases.”
Judge Roan intervened:
“The first of your motion was to rule out what he said about watching. The second about his conduct.”
Arnold answered in the affirmative. Then he continued:
“If you don’t call it a crime on those other occasions it would be a distinct transaction. How much harm might it do? How much would it confuse the jury? It would be eminently unfair to this man. We could cross-examine even to determining the illegality. If it is unfair to the State to rule it out it is a thousand times more harmful to permit this creature to poison a jury’s mind against this innocent man.”
Court Ruling Withheld.
Judge Roan: “Colonel Arnold, if the evidence on the day he watched and the murder occurred is admissible, why isn’t the watching on the other days admissible?”
“Why isn’t any other murder admissible?” replied Arnold. “My friend, Mr. Leonard Haas, has handed me another authority.”
Attorney Arnold then read the authirity [sic]. Judge Roan hesitated for a moment, then said:
“There is no doubt in my mind that it was inadmissible as an original proposition. I am inclined to think it should all be ruled out, except his watching on the day of the crime.”
Attorney Hooper interrupted: “Your honor,” he said, “will you withhold your ruling until in the morning, in order that we may cite you more authorities?”
“I would reverse myself at any time, if I found I was wrong,” Judge Roan replied. “I will refrain from saying anything to the jury until I have received your authority.”
The jury was then recalled.
Rosser then resumed his examination of Conley:
Q. Jim, you took that girl and wrrapper her up in that sheet?—A. Yes.
Q. Did it cover her whole body?—A. No.
Q. Which part?—A. I don’t know.
Q. Was her head out?—A. Yes.
Q. Her feet?—A. Yes.
Q. How much of her feet?—A. I don’t know, Mr. Rosser.
Q. Did her head hang back?—A. Yes.
Q. And her feet hang out?—A. Yes.
Q. You don’t know how much?—A. No.
Q. And you put your arm through it and lifted it up on your shoulder?—A. Yes.
Q. You walked with her on your back?—A. Yes.
Q. Then you came on up to the dressing room and dropped her because she was so heavy?—A. No, I just let her slip.
Q. Didn’t you tell the police you told Frank she was too heavy for you?—A. Yes.
Q. Why did you tell him that if she was not heavy?—A. I wanted to make him help me because I was scared.
Q. Well, was she heavy or was she light?—A. She was both ways; she wasn’t heavy and she wasn’t light.
A laugh rippled over the court room at the negro’s reply, and when it became ripe the negro showed his white teeth and laughed audibly.
Rosser Upbraids Conley.
Attorney Rosser was visibly worried. He frowned, and shaking a finger at Conley, said:
“You are a both ways negro, ain’t you? What are you laughing at? Do you see anything funny?”
The negro said:
“I was just laughing because the others laughed.”
“Didn’t you laugh first?” the lawyer shouted.
“No, sir, I just laughed because it was funny for me to say she was both ways,” the negro replied.
Q. How did she fall?—A. She fell on her back.
Q. She just fell from your hold on her? How far down?—A. I don’t know, sir.
Q. You were holding her about your knees?—A. Yes, sir.
Q. How far was Mr. Frank when you called him?—A. He was at the head of the stairs.
Q. How far was it?—A. I don’t know.
Q. Can you tell me anything more about this case, except that story you told Mr. Dorsey?
“I object,” said Dorsey. “That is argumentative. He can’t ask a question without specifying anything.”
“Why can’t I, your honor?” asked Rosser.
“It is a general question,” replied Judge Roan.
Rosser: “Has it come to the pass that I can’t ask a general question of this witness? I want to ask him if he knows anything about it he has not told.”
Negro Says He Told All.
“I rule that the idea of Mr. Dorsey is correct, and that your question can be put,” said Judge Roan. “Now I think that I have satisfied you both.”
The negro answered: “I have told all I know.”
Some members of the jury requested a soft drink, and Mr. Rosser said he would consent if he was brought one, too.
Q. Jim, when you called Mr. Frank and told him the girl was dead, what did he say?—A. He said, “S-sh,” and told me to look back by the clock box and get a cloth.
Q. He threw up the palm of his hand, and said, “Sh-h,” like shooing chickens?—A. Yes, sir, something like that.
Q. And you went and did it?—A. No sir, I didn’t hear him at first, so I went closer to him.
Q. How close?—A. I don’t know, sir.
Q. Then you went and did what he said?—A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Rosser took up a piece of burlap similar to the one Conley declared he had used to wrap the body up in. He started to have Conley go through the act of wrapping up the body, but the drama was postponed for a moment while the jury went out to get their drink.
Negro Describes Cloth.
Q. It was kind of in the shape of that, wasn’t it (Rosser held up a thick cloth)?—A. No, it wasn’t made exactly like that.
Q. Did it have cotton in it?—A. No, but it was mighty dirty.
Q. Didn’t you tell Mr. Dorsey it was this?—A. I said it was kind of like that.
Q. Was it a finer grade of cloth?—A. I don’t know about that.
Q. You don’t know whether it was like that, or not?—A. No.
Q. Didn’t you say Mr. Frank told you to look by the metal box and get that cloth?—A. No, I said by the cotton box.
Q. Jim, what did you do with that cloth when you got through with it?—A. I threw it down in front of the furnace.
Q. Where you put the slipper?—A. Yes.
Q. The cloth didn’t come in contact with her head at all?—A. I don’t know.
Q. You didn’t get that cloth on her shoulder?—A. Yes, I got it up there.
Q. Didn’t you say yesterday that you didn’t get it up there?—A. No, sir. I don’t think so.
Q. Didn’t you say this: “I tried to get it up there, and it dropped?”—A. I might have said that.
Q. How much did the girl weigh?—A. I don’t know.
Q. Can you carry 110 pounds without any trouble?—A. No.
Q. You say you can’t carry 110 pounds?—A. I said I couldn’t without any trouble.
Q. You are 27 years old. How much do you weigh?—A. 150 pounds.
Q. Mr. Frank backed up, didn’t he?—A. Yes.
Q. You were both excited and nervous?—A. Yes.
Q. You didn’t tell Scott or Black about Frank backing that body up on you?—A. I told one of them.
Q. You didn’t tell that during that heart-to-heart talk?—A. I don’t know.
Q. Did you tell it to Mr. Dorsey?—A. Yes, I think so.
Q. When you got there to the elevator, you took that cloth off didn’t you?—A. No.
Q. When did you take if off?—A. When I put her down.
How He Laid Girl Down.
Q. How did you leave the little girl in the basement?—A. With her head towards Alabama street—her feet towards Hunter, and her face towards Forsyth street.
Q. Didn’t you tell the detectives that you left her with her face towards the elevator?—A. I don’t think so.
Q. Are you sure?—A. I disremember what I said.
Q. What did you say to Mr. Frank?—A. I asked him what he wanted me to do with these things.
Q. Where were you standing?—A. At the furnace.
Q. Where was Mr. Frank?—A. At the elevator.
Q. That is 150 feet from the furnace?—A. I don’t know.
Q. Didn’t she have any dirt on her face when you found her?—A. Yes, she had dirt on both sides of her face.
Girl’s Eye Was Bruised.
Q. Did she have any bruises on her face?—A. One on the eye.
Q. Did you see any others?—A. Yes.
Q. Was Mr. Frank in your sight when you asked him what he wanted you to do with those things?—A. No, sir, he was not; that is, he was not where I could see him.
Q. Well, he was on the first floor, then?—A. I don’t know.
Q. You found a piece of ribbon down there, didn’t you?—A. Yes.
Q. But when you talked to Scott and Black you didn’t say anything about the shoes, hat and ribbon?—A. I don’t know, sir; except I told him I pitched them over there in front of the boiler.
Q. Who ran the elevator up?—A. I did for Mr. Frank told me. I ran it up and he got on at the first floor before it stopped and said: “Gee, but that was a hot job,” and hit me kind of playful like.
Q. Isn’t this the first time you have ever told about Mr. Frank hitting you when he got on the elevator?—A. I told somebody about it.
Elevator Was “Easy Like.”
Q. There is a big wheel at the top of the elevator, isn’t there?—A. Yes.
Q. When the elevator runs it just makes a little buzzing like a Junebug?—A. It goes down easy.
Q. Doesn’t it make much noise when it stops at the bottom?—A. No, it stops kind of easy like.
Q. That is a silent elevator, isn’t it?—A. I don’t know. It don’t make much noise.
Q. But don’t it just slide up and down, easy like without making any noise?—A. Well, it makes some noise when it moves.
* * *