Another in our series of new transcriptions of contemporary articles on the Leo Frank case.

Atlanta Journal

Thursday, May 8^th, 1913

L. A. Quinn was called to the stand. He lives at 31B Julliam street, he said, and is foreman of the metal department at the National Pencil factory. Mary Phagan worked in his department, he said. The last time he saw her was on the Monday preceding the murder, he said. She left the plant about 2 o’clock that Monday, said he. That was earlier than usual, but she left because the metal with which she worked had run out and she wanted to hurry to the matinee. He didn’t know any of her intimate friends, said he. She worked with Helen Ferguson and Grace Hix and Magnolia Kennedy, said he, and Henry Smith and John Ramey also worked in that department.

He worked on Friday, April 25, until 5:30 o’clock, said Quinn. He got his pay and left with the understanding that he would come to work on Monday.

The next morning, Saturday, he got up about 7 o’clock. Later he went uptown with his wife to get a picture made of their baby. Then they went back home. He came up town again, said he. He was stopped there, and questioned closely about hours and minutes.

He left home about 9:30 o’clock, he said. He and his wife and baby went straight to Kuhn’s photograph studio. They were there about ten minutes, he said.

They stopped next at the Globe Clothing company’s store on Whitehall street, said he, and talked for a while with some friends of his in there. He named them. He and his wife were there about five or ten minutes. They went from there down to a meat market in the next block south and bought some meat, staying there about five minutes. Farther down the street they stopped in at a soda water stand and bought some soft drinks. They arrived home about 11:15 o’clock. He remained in the house about thirty minutes. He left there about 11:45 o’clock, for town again, to get to the market before it closed, so he could buy some supplies for Sunday. He bought some meat and vegetables on that trip, said he. He could not describe the man he bought the meat from. He bought the vegetables first, from a man about five feet eleven inches tall, 165-170 pounds in weight, clean shaved. The man seemed to be a foreigner. He looked like an Italian.

HE WENT TO THE FACTORY.

From the meat market he went to Benjamin’s pharmacy and bought some cigars from a man named Pounds. He arrived there at a few minutes after 12 o’clock. He went on up Whitehall, left on Hunter street, to Forsyth, and then to the pencil factory. There was nothing unusual about him going to the factory on holidays, said the witness. He did so often. He wanted to speak to “Mr. Schiff” on this occasion, said he. He found the front door unlocked. He did not see Mary Phagan. He got there some time between 12:20 and 12:25, said he.

He was asked how he observed the time so minutely.

He figured it on the time he left home, said he.  He knew he left there about 11:45 o’clock, because he looked at his watch several times while he was at home. He walked to town, up Pulliam to Garnett, to Whitehall, and so to the market. It took him about 10 or 15 minutes to make the walk. It was pretty close to 12 o’clock when he got to the market, said he. He did not remember looking at his watch after he left home. It didn’t take him long to buy the meat and vegetables. He bought 40 cents worth of steak. He was waited on immediately. It took him about ten minutes, however, he said, to buy the vegetables. He wasn’t around the market longer than ten or twelve minutes. He stopped two or three minutes in Benjamin’s on the corner. The walk from there to the factory took about five minutes. He went straight to the office. He didn’t go anywhere else. He didn’t remember hearing the noon whistles blow.

WHEN HE SAW MR. FRANK.

He found Mr. Frank in the latter’s private office. They exchanged “good mornings,” he said. “Is Mr. Schiff in?” Quinn said he inquired. “No, I don’t suppose he will be down today,” Quinn said Mr. Frank replied. “You see you can’t keep me away even on holidays,” Quinn said he remarked to Mr. Frank. He said that Mr. Frank answered, “Yes,” and laughed, and nothing else was said. He was there in the office about two minutes, said he. He wasn’t positive about the exact time. He didn’t think it could be as early as 12:15 when he arrived there. It could have been between 12:20 and 12:35, he admitted.

“Could it have been as late as 12:30 o’clock?” he was asked.

“It could have been, but it wasn’t.”

“Why are you so positive?”

“Because I was somewhere else at 12:30,” the witness answered.

He continued that when he left the factory he stopped to talk with “Mr. Maulsby” at Mr. Maulsby’s place of business two doors from the factory. He offered Mr. Maulsby a cigar. Maulsby told him “those girls are in the restaurant,” and he answered “I know it; I saw them when I came up.” He told the names of two young women, one of whom was then a bride and the other of whom still worked in the factory.

IS AT FACTORY NOW.

Mr. Quinn said that he thought Miss Corinthia Hall is at the pencil factory this Thursday. The Miss Hall he saw at the undertaker’s establishment was a stenographer at Montag Brothers, and not Miss Corinthia Hall, he said.

The witness said that his purpose in going to the factory Saturday was to see Mr. Schiff and talk baseball with him. He had been accustomed to drop by the factory often on Saturdays and holidays, he said.

Mr. Quinn said that after leaving the factory he met the young ladies—Miss Hall and Mrs. Freeman—at the Busy Bee café, at the corner of Forsyth and Hunter streets.

In reply to a question from the coroner, he said that he thinks Mrs. Freeman is at the factory this Thursday.

Mrs. Freeman, who is about seventeen years old, had been married the day before—Friday—he said. Mr. Quinn said that he wanted to chat with her about the wedding. They remained in the café only a few minutes, he said, all three leaving together. Mr. Quinn said that he went to DeFoor Brothers pool parlor, getting there about 12:30, and chatted with the proprietors until about 1:15.

The coroner at this point asked Mr. Quinn if he knew May Barrett.

He replied, “Yes, she is employed in the varnishing department of the pencil factory.”

A FIFTEEN-MINUTE WALK.

In response to a question, Mr. Quinn said that it takes him about fifteen minutes to walk from his home to the pencil factory.

Going back to his visit to the pool room, Mr. Quinn said that after chatting baseball with the proprietors, he went to the Atlanta theater to buy a ticket.

Here Mr. Quinn said in response to a question that he knows John Rainey.

Just after he had bought his ticket at the theater, Mr. Quinn said, he saw Cliff Dodgen, an employee of the theater. The witness said that he didn’t remember exactly where his seat in the theater was, but thought it was on the ninth row, in the center aisle. No one that he knew sat near him that he remembered, he said.

The witness said in reply to the coroner’s question that Mr. Frank wore a brown suit Saturday.

Mr. Quinn said that he went to the factory about 9:30 o’clock Sunday morning. He met Mr. Darley and Ed Montag, an officer of the factory there, he said, and they went in the basement together.

The witness said that he heard of the murder about 9 o’clock Sunday morning when he went to a soda water stand near his home. Officer Payne and the men in charge of the stand were discussing it, he said, and told him. Mr. Quinn said that he gathered from the description given him then that the victim must have been Helen Ferguson. He was told that her first name was Mary, he said, and asked if the last was Phagan. The soda water man recalled it then.

The witness said that he then went to the undertaker’s establishment and looked at the body.

DENIED STATEMENT TO OFFICER.

He said that on Sunday afternoon he saw Mr. Frank at the undertaker’s. Mr. Frank wore a blue or a black suit then, he said.

Mr. Quinn denied that he had told Officer Payne or Detective Starnes that he hadn’t been to the factory since Friday.

He declared that when he had talked with Detective Starnes and Campbell at the rear door of the factory he had not stated that he hadn’t ben to the factory since Friday.

Mr. Quinn was asked about the white material used in his department. It was known as “hascolene,” he said, and was used as a lubricant for the machines. It came shipped in barrels, he said.

The witness said that on Tuesday or Wendesday in the detectives office, he recalled his visit to Mr. Frank on Saturday and that Mr. Frank remembered it readily. He told Mr. Frank, he said, that if it would do any good to mention his visit he would tell of it. Mr. Frank suggested that he mention it to his lawyer first, the witness said.

At this point Mr. Quinn, in response to a question, again denied that he had told Officer Payne or Detective Starnes or Campbell that he hadn’t been to the factory since Friday.

The witness said that he knew Miss Grace Jones and that he thinks she has been at the factory since the tragedy. He hadn’t accompanied Miss Jones from the factory; he said, and had not seen her since the tragedy, except on the fourth floor of the factory. He had talked to her there, he said, to see if she would not come to work in his department in case there were a number of vacancies that were anticipated. Mr. Quinn said that he didn’t remember discussing the Phagan case with Miss Jones.

Mr. Quinn said that he paid the Colemans a visit of consolation on Thursday. He went, he said, at the suggestion of Mr. Darley and Miss Magnolia Kennedy and because he thought he should go. His visit was purely one of consolation, he said.

Coroner Donehoo then asked Quinn:

“Did you ever tell Mr. Coleman (Mary Phagan’s stepfather) how Frank acted toward the girls in your department?”

“No, sir.”

“Did you ever tell Mr. Coleman how you treated the girls?”

“Yes, I told him I had always tried to make the girls feel at home. Frequently in fixing their machines, I would tell them to ‘Get out of the way and let papa fix it.’ I told Mr. Coleman how jolly Mary was—about a remark she made once: ‘Yes, you look like papa!”

“Do you know a man named Barrett?”

“Yes.”

“You never mentioned to him that you went to the pencil factory that Saturday?”

“No, sir.”

“When was the first time that you told anybody that you had been up there Saturday?”

“I told my father the next day, on Sunday. I didn’t tell Chief Lanford or any of the detectives until last Monday.”

“Why did you withhold that information?”

“I wasn’t asked about it.”

“You didn’t consider it your duty to tell unless you were asked?”

“No, I didn’t want to be dragged into it any sooner than necessary.”

“State what else you know, that you have retained.”

“Nothing.”

“You are not withholding anything then?”

“No, sir, nothing.”

“You say it was your duty to come down and see Mr. Frank after his arrest?”

“Yes, sir.”

“Do you consider it your duty to protect Mr. Frank?”

“No, sir.”

HIS PAY WENT ON.

He was asked if his pay went on while he called upon Mr. Frank at the jail, and said yes. Answering further questions, he said that now and then he got away for matinees, etc., but that his pay went on, that he wasn’t docked for absences. He was asked about his call at the jail.

“You came down and recalled your visit to Mr. Frank. Did he tell you to keep quiet about it until he had told his lawyers?”

“No. He remarked that he was going to tell his lawyers.” He said that Mr. Frank remembered his having been there, but did not remember the time of the visit until his attention was called to it.

“Why did you volunteer this information to Mr. Frank and not to the detectives?”

“I knew he couldn’t question me for three or four hours and the detectives could.”

“Did Mr. Frank consider it advisable that nothing be known about this?”

“No, sir. Mr. Frank didn’t ask me not to tell about it. I didn’t volunteer to tell it, because I expected to be asked every day.”

“Why didn’t you want to be questioned?”

“I knew they had three or four men holding them here, and they could hold me if they wanted to, as I had been in the building on Saturday.”

Other questions intervened, and then the coroner asked:

“Did you go out to Mrs. White’s yesterday?”

“No, sir; I don’t know Mrs. White.”

“Arthur White’s wife—you know Arthur White?”

“Yes, but I never have been out to his house.”

Quinn was excused from the stand at this juncture.

* * *

Atlanta Journal, May 8th 1913, “Lemmie Quinn Grilled by Coroner But He Sticks to His Statement,” Leo Frank case newspaper article series (Original PDF)

Lemmie Quinn, foreman, who testified that he visited the factory and talked to Mr. Frank just after Mary Phagan is supposed to have left with her pay envelope. He was given a searching examination by the coroner Thursday, but stuck to his statement.

Another in our series of new transcriptions of contemporary articles on the Leo Frank case.

Atlanta Journal

Thursday, May 8^th, 1913

Lemmie Quinn, the Factory Foreman, Was Put Through a Grilling Examination, but He Steadily Maintained That He Visited the Factory Shortly After the Time Mary Phagan is Supposed to Have Left With Her Pay Envelope

FRANK’S TREATMENT OF GIRLS IN FACTORY DESCRIBED AS UNIMPEACHABLE BY ONE YOUNG LADY EMPLOYEE

Mr. Frank’s Manner at the Time He Was Informed of the Tragedy by Officers at His Home on Sunday Morning is Told of by Former Policeman — Both Frank and the Negro Night Watchman Are Expected to Testify During Afternoon, When Inquest Will Be Concluded

The coroner’s inquest into the mysterious murder of Mary Phagan adjourned at 12:55 o’clock Thursday to meet again at 2:30. At the hour of adjournment, six witnesses had testified. They were “Boots” Rogers, former county policeman; Lemmie Quinn, foreman of the pencil factory; Miss Corinthia Hall, an employee of the factory; Miss Hattie Hall, stenographer; J. L. Watkins and Miss Daisy Jones. L. M. Frank and Newt Lee, the negro night watchman, were both present at headquarters during the morning session, but neither had been recalled to the stand when recess was ordered. Both are expected to testify during the afternoon, when an effort will be made to conclude the inquest and return a verdict.

Though put through a searching examination by the coroner in an effort to break down his statement that he had visited the factory on the day of the tragedy shortly after noon just after Mary Phagan is supposed to have received her pay envelope and left, Quinn stuck to his story. He declared that he had recalled his visit to Mr. Frank, and that Mr. Frank told him he was going to communicate the fact to his lawyers.

“Boots” Rogers testified that Mr. Frank had changed the tape in the time clock while the officers were in the factory Sunday morning after the body of Mary Phagan had been found, and that he stated at the time that the sheet he took from the clock seemed to be correct. Rogers also described Mr. Frank’s manner when the officers went to his home in an automobile to take him to the factory Sunday morning.

Miss Daisy Jones, who was mistaken for Mary Phagan by J. L. Watkins. She was a witness before the coroner Thursday. G. W. Epps, the boy who came to town with Mary Phagan on the day of the tragedy and left her on her way to the factory [right].

Miss Corinthia Hall, an employee in the factory, testified that Mr. Frank’s treatment of the girls in the factory was unimpeachable. She also testified that she had met Lemmie Quinn at a restaurant near the factory near the noon hour Saturday, her statement being confirmatory of his visit to the factory on the fatal day. J. L. Watkins testified that he had mistaken Miss Daisy Jones for Mary Phagan when he thought he saw Mary on the street near her home on Saturday afternoon about 5 o’clock. Miss Jones testimony was also in this connection.

NEW WITNESSES CALLED.

Following a conference between Solicitor General Dorsey, Assistant Solicitor General Stephens and Chief of Detectives Lanford, just after the inquest recessed for lunch, it was learned that Leo M. Frank and Newt Lee would be recalled at the afternoon session and that there would be the following new witnesses: Miss Alice Wood, of 8 Corput street; Miss Nellie Pitts, of 9 Oliver street, and Mrs. C. D. Dunnegan [sic], of 165 West Fourteenth street.

Rogers Describes Mr. Frank’s Manner When Told of Tragedy

“Boots” Rogers, formerly a county policeman, was the first witness. Mr. Rogers said that he lived at 100 McDonough road. He was at the police station at 3 o’clock on the morning of April 27, he said, when a call came from the factory of the National Pencil company. The officers responded to the call in his automobile, he declared. Those who went with him were Police Sergeants Brown and Dobbs, Call Officer Anderson and Britt Craig, a newspaper reporter.

Mr. Craig was the first person to enter the basement, the witness said. He (Mr. Rogers) entered second; Dobbs and Newt Lee, the negro night watchman, bringing up the rear. All saw the body about the same time, Mr. Rogers said.

George W. Epps

The witness said that the girl’s body was lying face down, with the hands folded beneath the body. The body was turned over by Police Sergeant Dobbs, he said.

Rogers continued that they found two notes near the body. The first note, found by Sergeant Dobbs, was on white scratch paper and on a tablet lying face down. The sheet with the note on it was detached and fell off when the tablet was picked up. It was lying about a foot from the body’s right shoulder. Another note was found later, written on a yellow order blank of the factory, lying about a foot from the feet of the body. Rogers wasn’t sure whether he or Sergeant Dobbs noticed that first. He didn’t notice a sharpened pencil nearby. There were a number of stubs, but none sharpened that he saw.

Asked “Who telephoned Mr. Frank that the girl was dead?” he said no one did as nearly as he remembered—that Detective Starnes telephoned Mr. Frank later in the morning to come down to the factory.

About two or three minutes after the first officers arrived with him, said Rogers, they were admitted to the factory. They saw the negro night watchman, Newt Leet, through the glass door, coming down the stairs with his lantern.

“She’s down in the basement—she’s down in the basement,” Rogers aid the negro told them first. He showed them the way down, indicating the trap door and the ladder. Britt Craig, a newspaper man, went first, and was followed by the witness, then by Sergeant Dobbs of the police, and last by the negro.

Everything was in gloom, though a gas jet was burning dimly at the foot of the ladder.

NEGRO WASN’T EXCITED.

“Look out, white folks, you’ll step on her,” the witness said the negro exclaimed when they started toward the rear of the basement. The negro took the lead then, with his lantern, and led them to the body. The negro’s manner was as cool as that of a man would be under the circumstances, said the witness. The negro wasn’t excited. “He was being questioned by all of us,” said the witness. He answered questions promptly.

“How did you happen to find the body?” the witness said was one of the questions put to the negro. He repeated the negro’s answer—of how he was making his rounds, and entered the basement, and by the dim rays of his lantern noticed a suspicious looking object on the ground near the back. “Somebody’s put that there to try to scare me,” the negro said he remarked to himself, going over to see closer. The body was revealed and he hurried back upstairs to telephone the police.

BODY FOUND FACE DOWN.

The witness said that Sergeant Dobbs asked the negro how the body was lying when he found it. The negro’s answer was “on its face.” “Did you turn it over?” the negro was asked; and answered “no sir, I didn’t touch it.”

This point of the evidence was in conflict with previous testimony by the negro himself, who swore at the inquest that when he found the body it was lying on its back face up, with its head toward the back door—exactly the reverse of the position in which the officers found it.

Rogers, the witness, said that the body was lying on its face, hand folded beneath it, when he and the officers first saw it. The negro stuck to the same story while answering all the questions, said the witness. After about ten minutes Sergeant Dobbs ordered that the negro be held under arrest. The negro was taken upstairs by Call Officer Anderson. The rest of them looked around for the girl’s left shoe, which was missing from the body.

Officer Anderson and the negro went upstairs first alone. Twenty or thirty minutes later the witness went up and found the officer and the negro sitting in the office. Anderson was trying to telephone to some of “the factory folks,” said the witness. The negro was sitting nearby in silence. Some one suggested that the officer telephoned to Mr. Frank, the superintendent, at his home. Anderson tried to get Mr. Frank’s number. There was no answer. Anderson talked to the operator, and told her something very serious had happened and that the call was urgent; and Anderson said he heard the persistent ringing that followed.

IDENTIFIED AS MARY PHAGAN.

While he and Sergeant Dobbs had been moving about downstairs, looking for the girl’s shoes, said Rogers, they found the staple on the back door pulled, and pushed the door back and went out into the alley, searching it to Hunter street for some clue. Rogers then went away to find some one to identify the body, said he. The shoe was found by somebody else later. He went to 100 McDonough road, said he, to get Miss Grace Hix, a relative of his own, whom he knew to be employed in the factory. He brought Miss Hix back with him in the automobile, and she identified the body as that of Mary Phagan. Miss Hix sought first to telephone to Mary’s mother, Mrs. J. W. Coleman, but there was no phone in the Coleman home, so she telephoned instead to the home of another girl, Miss Ferguson, and got Mrs. Ferguson, and asked her to go over and break the news to Mrs. Coleman.

MR. FRANK NOTIFIED.

Mr. Rogers said that Detective Starnes, who had been summoned to the factory, called Mr. Frank over the telephone shortly after 6 o’clock. The witness said that he drove Detective Black to Mr. Frank’s home, and that Mrs. Frank, wearing a heavy bathrobe, came to the door. He said that Mr. Frank stood in the hall, fully dressed except his collar and tie.

The witness said that Mr. Frank appeared nervous and excited and asked whether the night watchman had reported to the police that something had happened at the factory. Mr. Rogers said that neither he nor Mr. Black answered.

The witness said that Mr. Frank remarked that a drink of whiskey would do him good and that Mrs. Frank said there was none in the house, but insisted that Mr. Frank get some breakfast before going out. However, they hurried to the undertaking establishment, the witness said.

Mr. Rogers said that on the way to the undertaker’s establishment, Mr. Frank remarked that he had dreamed he had heard his telephone ring about daybreak. Detective Black asked Mr. Frank whether he knew Mary Phagan, the witness said, Mr. Frank replying that he didn’t know whether he did or not.

The witness said that Mr. Frank did not go into the room in which the Phagan child’s body lay.

Mr. Frank remarked, the witness said, that he could refer to his payroll and see whether Mary Phagan worked at the pencil factory.

“Was Mr. Frank steady or trembling at the undertaking establishment?” was asked Mr. Rogers.

“I couldn’t say,” he answered.

Mr. Frank suggested that they go to the factory, the witness said. At the factory, the witness said, they found a number of detectives and policemen and Mr. Darley, an official of the factory, who had been summoned. They went upstairs, the witness aid, to the office and Mr. Frank referred to the payroll, saying that Mary Phagan worked there and that she had been paid $1.20 the day before, shortly after 12 o’clock.

ELEVATOR AT SECOND FLOOR.

The witness said that Mr. Frank then asked if the pay envelope had been found, remarking that it must be around somewhere. They went to the basement in the elevator, which stood at the second floor, the witness said. Mr. Frank switched the current and there was some delay in getting the elevator to work. The fire doors of the elevator were open at this time, Mr. Rogers said, but he didn’t remember whether they were open or closed when he went to the factory the first time.

The elevator was run to the basement, the witness said and Mr. Frank was shown where the body had been found.

CHANGED TAPE IN CLOCK.

When he returned from the basement, said the witness, he sat in Mr. Frank’s inner office with the negro , Lee. Mr. Frank stayed in outer office, but came in twice where he and negro were, and, on the second trip, Mr. Frank looked at the negro and shook his head and said, “Too bad!”

Mr. Frank asked repeatedly if the officers were through with him, saying he wanted to go out and get a cup of coffee, but no opportunity to get the coffee arose. After a while, said the witness, after Mr. Frank had been through the building with Chief of Detectives Lanford, Mr. Frank suggested that they change the tape in the time clock. Mr. Frank took a key to the clock, which he wore on a ring at his belt, and opened the clock with it and removed the time slip and laid it down by the clock. He then went back into his office and got a blank slip. He asked one of the officers standing near to hold back a little lever while he inserted this slip. The lever knocked against a little pencil in the clock. Newt Lee, the negro, was standing near. Mr. Frank turned to the negro and asked, “What is this pencil doing in the hole?” Lee said he had put it there so his number would be sure to register every time he rang. Mr. Frank put the key back at his belt and dated the slip which he had taken from the clock with a pencil which he took from his pocket. The witness though Mr. Frank wrote the date “April 26, 1913,” on it, but he wouldn’t be sure about that, he said.

Mr. Frank, after examining the slip, stated that it was punched correctly, said the witness. He also looked at the slip. The first punch started at 6 p. m., and it was punched every half hour, the witness thought, up to 2:30 o’clock. At 2:30 was the last punch. Mr. Frank took the slip into his own office, said the witness, and the witness said he did not know what became of it after that. A little later they all got into his automobile, said Rogers, Mr. Frank sitting in Mr. Darley’s lap in front beside him (the witness) at the wheel, and some of the officers sitting with Frank in the back.

At this point the coroner asked where Mr. Darley was when the clock slip was being removed. He was standing near by, said the witness.

After delivering his passengers at police headquarters, said Rogers, he went with Miss Hix to take her back to her own home.

On the trip to headquarters, said he, Mr. Frank did not seem to be as nervous as he had been. When he returned to headquarters, said the witness, the detectives were getting Newt Lee, the negro, to write. Lee then seemed very nervous.

* * *

Atlanta Journal, May 8th 1913, “Phagan Inquest in Session; Six Witnesses are Examined Before Adjournment to 2:30,” Leo Frank case newspaper article series (Original PDF)

Another in our series of new transcriptions of contemporary articles on the Leo Frank case.

Atlanta Constitution
August 21st, 1913

John Starnes, prosecutor of Leo Frank, was put up to tell about the Minola McKnight affidavit.

“Did you Investigate the scuttle hole around the elevator? was Dorsey’s first question.

An objection by the defense was overruled.

“See any blood spots there?

“No.”

“Now, tell the jury about the Minola McKnight affidavit.”

“Pat Campbell and I arrested her at the solicitor’s office. We had gone to get a statement from her husband. We also had information from this husband that she had made the identical statement which she made in the affidavit. The next day, Mr. Craven and Mr. Pickett came to police headquarters. They were sent into the room with Minola. She said, upon request, that she preferred to talk to them. We left them alone with her. When she finished with her statement, I said, “Minola, we only want the truth, and if this isn’t the truth, we don’t want it.” She said that it was the whole truth. Her attorney, Mr. Gordon, was waiting on the outside conferred with him frequently. I don’t recall any demand that he made except for admission. When he went into the room, the statement was half finished. It was read over to him, and he left shortly afterwards, presumably for the solicitor’s office. The statement had been typewritten when he returned. It was read over to him, and he asked Minola a number of questions about it.”

“Was she held upon my authority?” asked the solicitor.

“No.”

“Did I direct you to free her?”

“No.”

Cross-examination, by Rosser:

“What authority did you have to arrest her?”

“The feeling of an honest and conscientious officer who thought she ought to have been arrested.”

“Did you have any warrant?”

“No.”

“Did Dorsey know you were going to lock her up?”

“I suppose he did.”

“He didn’t protest against it because it was against the law?”

“No.”

“She was carried from Dorsey’s office screaming and hysterical, wasn’t she?”

“Yes.” 

“And declaring that she had told all she knew?”

“I don’t think she said that.”

“Your purpose was to get her to make another statement beside the one she had already made—the one that didn’t suit you, eh?”

“My purpose was to get the truth.”

“Did you telephone Dorsey at any time?”

“My recollection is that I called him to tell that Minola had made the statement.”

“Why did you call him?”

“He was representing the state in the state’s case on which we were working.”

* * *

Atlanta Constitution, August 21st 1913, “Starnes Tells How Affidavit From Negro Cook Was Secured,” Leo Frank case newspaper article series (Original PDF)

Another in our series of new transcriptions of contemporary articles on the Leo Frank case.

Atlanta Constitution
July 30^th, 1913

When Sergeant Dobbs was called from the stand Detective J. M. Starnes, prosecutor of Frank and a detective attached to police headquarters was called in. He has been associated with the solicitor general throughout the Phagan investigation.

The defense and prosecution clashed in perhaps their most spectacular battle over an attempt of Attorney Rosser to force the detective into recalling the exact words of a portion of his testimony at the coroner’s inquest.

An argument was advanced by both Attorneys Dorsey and Hooper and each member of Frank’s counsel Attorneys Arnold and Rosser.

The apparent motive of the defense was to discredit certain portions of Starnes story relative to his telephonic conversation with the accused superintendent when he notified him of the tragedy at daybreak Sunday morning.

The result was a rule by Judge Roan to allow the defense to remind the witness of the exact statement he was wished to recall the exact date and circumstances. It was followed by an amendment, the question finally going unasked.

An Effort to Impeach.

During the course of the detective’s testimony the solicitor general accused the defense of endeavoring to impeach Starnes. Starnes was told, however, by Attorney Rosser that no effort was being made along this line. Starnes answered:

“I hope not, because I’m trying to tell the truth.”

“When did you first reach the pencil factory?” the solicitor questioned.

“About 6 o’clock on the morning of April 27,” he answered.

“What happened?”

Found a Girl’s Hat.

“I saw Sergeant Dobbs and he carried me into the basement. We looked around and I found a girl’s hat. We inspected the broken staple in the rear door.”

“Was the body there at that time?”

“No.”

“How was the rear door supposed to open?”

“It slid south.”

“What did you do later in the day?”

“I went to police headquarters and with Chief Lanford. Detective Black took Newt Lee back to the pencil factory. We went into the basement and later I called Superintendent Frank over the telephone.”

“How long did it require to get him.”

“Only a short while. He answered the phone himself.”

“What was the conversation?”

“I asked him if he were superintendent of the pencil factory and he replied that he was. I told him I was a detective and wanted him to come directly to the factory. He said he had not had breakfast. I said I’d send an automobile for him. He asked, ‘Where is the night watchman?’ and I told him he was there. Boots Rogers and John Black went for him in Rogers’ car.”

“Did you tell him what had happened at the factory?”

“No. He didn’t ask.”

“How long was it before he arrived?”

“In a very short time. Not more than thirty minutes.”

“What was Lee’s demeanor when carried back to the plant?”

Conduct Means Much as Words.

An objection to this question was made by the defense. Attorney Arnold declared that the negro’s conduct meant as much as his words.

“This thing,” he said, meaning the trial, “is going entirely too much on looks.”

Judge Roan, however, sustained the solicitor. The witness’ answer was,

“He was calm and composed.”

“Did you observe Frank’s deportment?”

“He appeared nervous—different from other men who were around the place.”

“Detail his manners and movements.”

“He just seemed nervous.”

Here Judge Roan asked the witness what he meant by “just nervous.”

“He was nervous and not composed,” was the detective’s answer.

“Where did he go?”

“I don’t know.”

“When was he trembling and nervous?”

“When they first brought him to the factory.”

“Did you talk with him?”

“No.”

“Did you see any slips punched in the watchman’s clock?”

Saw Watchman’s Slips.

“Yes. About a week afterward I went to the factory late one night after I had gone home and got the watchman to lead me through the building. I took out a slip covering a period from 6 o’clock at night until 6 o’clock in the morning until 6 o’clock in the afternoon.”

“Subsequent to this did you see any wrapping cord? Where did you get the wrapping cord you obtained at the factory?”

“Yes. On second floor.”

“What did you do with this cord?”

“Saved it.”

“Where did you find this particular cord?” The solicitor displayed several strands of regulation heavy wrapping twine.

“In the delivery department—or finishing room.”

“Will you explain the location of this room on this chart of the factory?”

The witness indicated on the diagram a spot near the metal room on the second floor.

“Were there any other specimens of this cord on the second floor?”

Cords in the Basement.

“I didn’t see any. There were many though in the basement.”

“Did you find anything near the dressing room on the second floor?”

“On the following Monday I saw near the door on the northwest corner a number of spots that resembled blood like the blood spots we found in dressing room No. 7.”

“How far were these spots from the end of the dressing room?”

“About two feet.”

“What did you do upon this discovery?”

“Got a hammer and chisel and chipped out the wood containing the spots.”

“How large were the chips?”

“About the size of the palm of the hand.”

“Find anything else beside blood?”

“Some white stuff like white wash that had apparently been spread to conceal the spots.”

“Were there means of locking the doorway to the rear stairs?”

“Yes.”

Blood Found on Nail.

“With the shutters closed on the north side of the building, is the metal room dark or light?”

“About half and half.”

“Did you find blood anywhere else?”

“Several spots on a nail I found in the metal room.”

“Were there any spots on the floor where this nail was found?”

“Yes, in spots for a small area.”

“Was there any of this white stuff there?”

“No.”

“Find any other blood spots?”

“Yes, in finger prints on the rear door.”

“Explain the location of blood spots relative to dressing room No. 7 and the elevator.”

“The first spot was about 50 feet from the front stairway and the second about 30 feet from the double doors that divided the metal department from the front of the second floor.”

Attorney Rosser took up the examination.

Says Staple Is Bent.

“Let’s see Starnes about some of these things to which you are testifying: he began picking up the metal staple that had been pulled from the basement door and holding it to view of the witness, ‘This staple is bent, isn’t it?’”

“Yes, a little bit.”

“Well,” retorted the attorney, “you can’t expect such a little thing as this to be bent a quarter of a mile, can you?”

“I can’t see very well without glasses.”

“Oh, you’re getting old like I am—that’s what the matter with you.”

“To say the least,” Mr. Rosser continued, “its prongs are not straight by any means. When did you first see it?”

“About 5 or 6 o’clock that Sunday morning.”

“When did you first see Mary Phagan’s hat?”

“At the same time.”

Found It After Three Hours.

“Then you found it three hours after the police got to the scene?”

“Yes.”

“If that be true, they found the shoes on the same trash pile and overlooked the hat?”

“Yes, they said they didn’t suspect it was the girl’s hat.”

“Do you mean to say that a crowd of detectives blundered like that?”

“They weren’t detectives, they were policemen.”

“Did you find anything else?”

“I found a gas pipe on the following Monday.”

“If this pipe was found on Monday, it might not have been there on Saturday?”

“It is possible.”

“What size was it—one quarter of an inch?”

“About that size.”

Defense Concedes Point.

At this juncture the solicitor objected to the question. Mr. Rosser conceded saying,

“Talk kindly and I’ll do anything in the world for you.” He was smiling good naturedly at the table by which sat attorneys for the state.

“You took charge of Newt Lee, didn’t you?” Mr. Rosser continued.

“Yes, Black and I.”

“You kept him in the office, didn’t you?”

“Yes.”

“Boots Rogers was in the office with you, eh?”

“I don’t remember.”

Did Not Correct Rogers.

“Did you hear Rogers testify at the inquest?”

“Yes.”

“If he made a mistake in his testimony, you didn’t correct him, did you?”

“It wasn’t my business to correct him.”

“Do you mean to say that you who represent truth shouldn’t correct an error that concerns you or your work?”

Mr. Dorsey objected to this. He accused the counsel for the defense of attempting to impeach the detective and of striving to impeach Rogers before the latter had entered the case.

Mr. Rosser declared that Starnes had stood idly by and watched a witness for the state give erroneous testimony. The solicitor contended that it was inadmissible to impeach Rogers which it was apparent the defense was endeavoring to do before Rogers had some into the case.

The solicitor was overruled.

Mr. Rosser continued with his examination.

“You heard him state at the inquest about being in the office, did you not?”

“I think so.”

Attorneys Clash.

“Do you profess to give the words of your conversation with Frank over the telephone the morning of the discovery after three months have elapsed?”

“I will as near as I can.”

“Then if your memory is so good give me the exact words you spoke at the coroner’s inquest.”

The solicitor interposed, saying it was irrelevant to attempt to learn from Starnes what he had testified to at the inquest inasmuch as his statement stood as documentary evidence in form of stenographic notes.

Attorney Arnold arose from the table of the defense counsel saying,

“The solicitor complains of losing time in this case. He is taking up more time by talking than it would require to submit evidence.”

Will Try Case by Law.

Mr. Dorse arose and said,

“I want to try this case according by law if it takes a year.”

Following which, Mr. Arnold again said:

“We don’t want to impeach Starnes. We want to sift him, to determine him—we have a right to. If he remembers one thing perfectly, he can surely remember another. We only want to test his memory—that’s all.”

“They have a right to test his memory on everything but sworn testimony,” said the solicitor. “Otherwise, it’s unfair.”

“You can pick out anything to which he testified in this trial,” said Judge Roan. “That is my ruling.”

Attorney Rosser insisted upon his question, however, Mr. Dorsey arose, exclaiming:

Ask Enforcement of Rule.

“I ask the judge not only to rule, but to enforce the rule.”

“You testified at the inquest to having made Lee rewrite the murder notes, didn’t you?” Mr. Rosser asked the witness. “Give me your exact words.”

Before the witness could answer, Mr. Dorsey interposed:

“He must remind the witness of the exact time and place of the statement to which he has reference.”

Mr. Rosser replied:

“I disclaim any disposition to impeach Officer Starnes.”

An amendment was made to the judge’s decision which permitted the attorney to ask this question:

“Can you recall your exact words at the inquest?”

“I may be able to do so, and I may not.”

Testimony is Important.

“Then, your telephone talk with Frank, as unimportant as you considered it—“

Mr. Dorsey objected, but was overruled.

“Was it an important message—did you consider it so?” Rosser resumed.

“Yes.”

“Why? Also, how did you recollect it so well?”

“I had witnesses—Boots Rogers and, I think, Detective Black.”

“Aren’t you mistaken?”

The witness paused, after which he said:

“Maybe so—I believe I am.”

“Some splotches of blood are still on the second floor, aren’t they?”

“I suppose so.”

“It was Monday you found the spots?”

“Yes.”

“There was no way of telling how long they had been there, was there?”

“No.”

Says Floor Is Dirty.

“Isn’t that floor the dirtiest you ever saw?”

“Not the dirtiest, although it’s pretty dirty.”

“Don’t think I’m trying to impeach you, Starnes.”

“I hope not—I’m trying to tell the truth.”

“Do you know whether or not the back doors were open on the day of the tragedy?”

“I do not.”

“Didn’t you find all over the factory strings like this one you have here—the kind of cord found about the girl’s throat?”

“I can’t say it was exactly alike or even made in similar shape.”

“As a matter of fact, there was plenty of cord in all parts of the factory?”

“There generally were pieces of cord in all parts of the building.”

“You are testifying now of facts as you know them, are you not?”

Looks for Purse.

“Yes.”

“Did you ever look for Mary Phagan’s purse?”

“Yes.”

“Ever look for the artificial flowers and ribbon she wore on her hat?”

“Yes.”

“Did you find either?”

“No.”

The solicitor took up the questioning.

“Do you know, of your own knowledge, whether or not she had a purse with her when she was slain?”

“No.”

“When you talked to Frank over the telephone that morning, were you guarded in what you said?”

Counsel for Defense Object.

Counsel for the defense objected to this question. Judge Roan ruled that the solicitor could ask the witness only what he had said to the defendant.

“Yes, I was guarded,” admitted the detective.

Rosser took charge of the witness.

“What did you mean when you told a short time ago that your conversation with Frank was casual?”

“A talk between two gentlemen over the telephone?”

“Do you recognize these chips of wood as the places you chiseled from the second floor of the pencil factory—the ones containing the blood spots?”

Witness identified the chip specimens.

At this point, the clothing worn by Mary Phagan when her body was discovered was submitted as evidence. Every piece, including a bloody handkerchief discovered near her body, was admitted without protest.

“Did you see Frank at police headquarters?” questioned Rosser.

“Yes—everyday he was there.”

“Were you there Monday when he was summoned?”

“I believe so.”

Starnes was dismissed from the stand.

The solicitor asked that the chart of the pencil factory, to which he had made frequent reference during all examinations of the day, be admitted as evidence. Attorney Rosser asked first that he be allowed to inspect it.

Protest Against Drawing.

He protested vigorously, saying that the drawing was inadmissible. It had once been used as a newspaper illustration to a story of the Phagan crime. He read from the key words inscribed at the bottom of the chart:

“Black dotted lines indicate course taken by the accused. Cross indicates where the girl was murdered on the second floor.”

He turned to face the solicitor.

“I didn’t think Mr. Dorsey or Mr. Hooper would undertake to put such a thing over on me.”

Dorsey replied:

“I realized that the plat was inadmissible.”

Drawing Will Be Changed.

“The whole drawing is an argumentative picture of the state’s theory,” said Mr. Arnold. “Pictures convey the strongest kind of argument. The dotted lines on this picture are as eloquent as words. A plat that is fair should be nothing but a bare representation of facts.”

The solicitor agreed to remove the key words and lines from the chart.

“A naked plat,” said Judge Roan, “is admissible, but if it contains anything argumentative, it is inadmissible.”

The chart will be changed.

As the clock hands reached 5:07, the judge asked the solicitor if he had a “short witness” which he could place on the stand. Upon being informed that none was available, the session was adjourned until 9 o’clock this morning.

Another in our series of new transcriptions of contemporary articles on the Leo Frank case.

Atlanta Constitution
July 30^th, 1913

NEWT LEE STICKS TO ORIGINAL STORY DESPITE ATTEMPTS TO CONFUSE NEGRO

Striking Feature of Day’s Proceedings Was the Evident Effort on Part of Luther Rosser to Connect Watchman With Crime, or Show He Knew More Than He Has Told.

DORSEY SAYS DEFENSE IS TRYING TO IMPEACH TESTIMONY OF STARNES

Mr. Rosser Declared, However, That All He Was Trying to Do Was to Test the Memory of Detective Who Was Among First to Investigate the Murder of Mary Phagan in Factory.

During the second day’s proceedings of the Leo M. Frank trial the sensation for which the morbidly curious have been craning their necks failed to materialize.

Nothing that has not been printed in the papers was brought out.

The striking feature of the day’s proceedings was the evident effort on the part of Luther Rosser to connect Newt Lee with the commission of the crime, or to show that he knew more about the death of Mary Phagan than he has thus far told. As on the previous day, Lee stuck to his original story, and through hours of what would have been acute torture to a man of refined sensibilities he was stolid in reiterating the details of how he had found the body, and of Leo M. Frank’s words and actions on Memorial day, when the murder of Mary Phagan was committed.

Efforts Fail to Confuse Negro.

Seasoned courthouse officials and old reporters marveled at the way the negro held out against the crossfire of questions, all aimed to confuse him.

When at a loss to understand a question, he would have it repeated to him sometimes half a dozen times, and then he would illustrate his actions and the actions of Frank by graphic pantomime.

A drawing depicting a cross section of the National Pencil factory played an important part in the day’s proceedings. Lee was made to point out on this drawing just what he had done and where he had been in the building the night of the murder. The drawing was difficult for an illiterate person to decipher, but Lee was not confused to any extent, and then only for the moment.

Trial Progresses Slowly.

Only three witnesses were placed on the stand Tuesday—Newt Lee, who was testifying when adjournment came Monday; Sergeant Dobbs, of the police force, who went to the pencil factory the morning the body was discovered, and John Starnes, of the Atlanta detective department, who called up Leo Frank, April 26 and informed him of the murder. When adjournment was had Starnes was still on the stand.

A sharp clash took place between Solicitor General Dorsey and Luther Rosser during the time Starnes was testifying. Mr. Rosser sought to make Starnes recall his exact words while testifying before the coroner’s inquest. Mr. Dorsey claimed that this was an effort to impeach the witness. Mr. Rosser replied that it was only an effort to test the memory of the witness.

The crowd Tuesday was considerably larger than that of Monday and during the afternoon session scores were standing.

Frank maintained the outward calm of the day previous. At one time during Newt Lee’s testimony he laughed out lout at some sally of Luther Rosser’s.

Lee Sticks to Story

During the four hours and forty minutes that Newt Lee negro night watchman at the National Pencil factory was on the stand in the trial of Leo M. Frank for the murder on April 26, of little Mary Phagan, the negro, although apparently so ignorant and dull that his interrogators had to put their questions in simplest form and frequently repeat them, stuck literally word-for-word to his statements before the coroner’s jury and to officials.

In one or two cases the darkey declared that certain portions of the stenographic report of the coroner’s hearing was incorrect, and despite the gruelling and tantalizing crossfire of Luther Rosser, he hung out for what he declared to be the correct version of his statement.

That there must have been some discrepancies in the record, was also brought out by Police Sergeant L. S. Dobbs, who went on the stand Tuesday to tell of answering the negro’s call to the station house, also declared that his testimony before the coroner had been taken down incorrectly in part.

Childishly Particular

In some instances the negro made corrections of which only the childish mind of an African would have thought. One of these occasions was when he positively swore time and again (and that was whenever he got a chance) that Leo Frank had never used the words, “Go out and have some fun, Newt.”

“Nor, sir. Mr. Frank, he said, ‘Go out and have ‘er good time, Newt,’” the darkey corrected.

Again he swore that when Sergeant Dobbs was reading the murder notes to him and reached the word “night” that he interrupted with “They’s tryin’ ‘er lay hit on me,” and not “That means me, boss,” as reported.

In brief, the story which the darkey told and hung on to like a loan shark to his victim was that he reported for duty at the pencil factory on April 26 at 4 o’clock, an hour earlier than usual, but as he had been ordered on account of the holiday to do.

He said Frank was there and told him to go out and have “’er good time,” and come back later and that he went despite the fact that he wanted to lie down and sleep.

Frank Frightened by Gantt

Lee said he came back about 6 o’clock and found Mr. Frank there, and soon aided him in the difficult task of refilling the time clock with a tape. After that he declared he was near the front door when Frank came out and almost ran into J. M. Gantt and Frank jumped back and appeared frightened.

Lee said he thought little of the fear at that time as the superintendent and Gantt had engaged in a row previous to Gantt’s discharge and he thought Frank was afraid Gantt had come there to whip him.

Lee then told of going with Gantt to get the latter’s shoes at Frank’s orders and of being left alone in the building. He said Frank had called him up at about 7 o’clock and asked if everything was all right and that this procedure was unusual.

He declared that he had punched the clock regularly until he went to the basement about 3 o’clock and saw the body and after finding it to be a real body, and not a dummy placed there to frighten him; how he went to the office and called police station and then tried in vain to call Mr. Frank.

Tells How Body Was Found

Sergeant L. S. Dobbs who led the party of officers to the pencil factory on the Sunday morning that Newt Lee gave the alarm about the murder of Mary Phagan was placed upon the stand following Lee. He told of his actions from the time that he started out on the call until he had locked Lee up and had conducted Frank to the basement.

The police officer declared that when he reached the place, that Lee was not apparently laboring under excitement, but that he took him in charge at once and made him carry them to the body.

He said that he found the girl lying on her face with blood on the back of her head and with a cord tied so tightly around her neck as to cut into the flesh and that there was also a piece of underclothing tied loosely around the neck.

The findings of the murder notes and reading of them to Lee were next described and then the sergeant told of his finding the girl’s missing shoe and hat and of finding an apparent trace where a body had been dragged from the elevator shaft to the spot where it was found.

The reading of the murder notes to the negro was next described in detail as well as the later developments of the officers who examined the body. Sergeant Dobbs also identified the cord and underclothing found around the child’s neck and told of the torn condition of her underclothes and of a black bruise on her left knee and also of bruises on her face.

Detective Starnes On Stand

Detective J. N. Starnes was the third witness to be placed upon the stand since the trial began. He was called upon Tuesday afternoon and made to tell of the various events from the time he accompanied Sergeant Dobbs to the factory until his testimony at the coroner’s inquest.

Detective Starnes told of finding the body and to a great extent his testimony was merely a corroboration of what the police officer had told.

It was his testimony in regard to telephoning Superintendent Frank and his declaration that Frank was nervous when he arrived at the factory that brought down upon him the gun fire of the defense.

So fierce was the cross-fire here that Solicitor Dorsey accused the defense of trying to impeach him. This Attorney Rosser declared he had no intention of doing, however.

Starnes was made to go into detail about the finding of the body, the physical appearance of the basement and of the demeanor of Lee as well as of the superintendent.

After Starnes was dismissed from the stand there came an argument over the admission of the chart of the pencil factory as evidence, ending with the judge deciding it could be admitted if all lettering was removed and court adjourned at 5:07 o’clock.

Another in our series of new transcriptions of contemporary articles on the Leo Frank case.

Atlanta Journal
July 30^th, 1913

Tuesday Afternoon’s Session Hears of Beginning of Police Investigation Into Mystery of Mary Phagan’s Murder

Following in the sequence which it began with the introduction of the first witness, the prosecution of the murder charge against Leo M. Frank progressed Tuesday afternoon to the point at which the city detectives began their investigation of t[h]e murder mystery.

Beginning with Mrs. J. W. Coleman, mother of Mary Phagan, who saw her leave home about noon of April 26, the state established in succession her arrival at the corner of Marietta and Forsyth streets, and departure thence for the factory two blocks away—this by the newsboy, George Eppes; the ing of her dead body fifteen hours hour, in the pencil factory basement—this by the night watchman, Newt Lee; the arrival of the police and their official survey of the surroundings—this by Sergeant L. S. Dobbs; the beginning of the detectives’ investigation and the arrival of Leo M. Frank in physical person upon the scene—this by Detective J. N. Starnes, who appears formally as the prosecutor of the charge against Frank.

Thus, therefore, the state has established the very necessary foundation of fact that Mary Phagan was murdered in the pencil factory.

The session Tuesday afternoon was punctuated by objections by the state or the defense to questions put by the opposing side to witnesses on the stand, and by arguments between state and defense over these points.

Sergeant Dobbs and the other officers examined the basement and failed to find any notes or pads except the two notes and the pad found beside the body he said. They failed too to discover any pads on the first floor of the factory. There was no blood on the ground or in the sawdust where the body was found.

Attorney Rosser asked him if he went carefully into the trash pile in his search. No, he didn’t dig it all up, said the witness.

Picking up the hasp which had been found drawn from the back door, Mr. Rosser handed it to the witness and secured his admission that it was slightly bent to one side. Sergeant Dobbs said he could not say how the hasp was removed, but that it must have been drawn straight out from the inside of the basement; that the door apparently had been opened from the inside.

Mr. Rosser read the sergeant’s testimony at the coroner’s inquest with reference to the dragging trail leading from the elevator to the dust bin, and also with reference to the size of the trap door in the first floor.

Apparently the attorney sought to bring out that the trail did not lead all the way from the front of the elevator, but from somewhere near the corner of it close to the ladder. He also sought to establish the fact from the witness that the trap door hole was not so small that two persons could not pass through it. Witness protested that he got through himself with great difficulty; that the hole is small.

City Detective J. N. Starnes, who is known in the case as the prosecutor of Leo M. Frank, was next called to the stand.

STARNES’ TESTIMONY.

Detective Starnes testified that he went to the pencil factory about 5 o’clock on Sunday, April 27, and made a minute examination of the basement. He testified at length as to the position of the hasp and lock on the basement door. The substance of this testimony was that the staple could not possibly have been drawn from the outside. He declared that there was a small piece of pipe on the inside, which evidently had been used to pull the staple, as directly beneath, the hasp’s position on the woodwork was an indentation which this pipe fitted.

There was another larger piece of pipe, he said, which had been placed against the door to prevent it being opened from the outside, and this pipe was in place when he made his examination.

Detective Starnes said that he took Newt Lee back to the pencil factory that Sunday morning following a conference between Chief of Detectives Lanford and Detective Black and himself. Wetective [sic] Black went with them, he said.

The first thing he did on arriving at the factory was to call Frank’s house on the telephone. He got a response shortly and got Frank on the telephone and told him to come down to the pencil factory right away.

PHONED TO FRANK.

Frank replied that he had had no breakfast and that he didn’t want to come until he had eaten something. Starnes said he impressed on him the urgency of coming and offered to send an automobile after him, and that Frank then agreed to come.

The automobile went out and got him. Starnes said that he did not tell Frank why he wanted him to come to the factory. There was no way for Frank to find out that there had been a murder at the factory until he reached there thirty minutes or less after the telephone conversation.

“What was the attitude of the negro Lee?” asked the solicitor.

Attorney Rosser objected. There was an argument for about five minutes, all four of the attorneys participating.

“We don’t care what the witnesses looked like,” said Attorney Arnold. “A detective thinks everybody looks guilty.”

NEWT LEE WAS CALM.

Starnes replied that the negro seemed composed when they took him up to the pencil factory that morning.

Mr. Dorsey asked Detective Starnes about the appearance of Frank. Starnes said that the first time he saw Frank was when Frank, with several other men walked into the factory office where he, the witness, had Lee. Among the other men was General Manager Darley, of the pencil factory. The first thing Starnes heard Frank say was a remark addressed to Mr. aDrley[sic]: “You see, I’ve got another suit.”

Attorney Hooper, for the state, declared that inasmuch as Attorney Rosser had been allowed to make an attack on Lee during his cross-examination of the negro, he believed this to be admissible in rebuttal.

Judge Roan said he would allow the question if Solicitor Dorsey insisted.

“I insist, your honor,” said Mr. Dorsey. He was allowed to repeat his question.

SAYS FRANK WAS NERVOUS.

Starnes admitted that when he was talking with Frank over the telephone he told him who it was that was talking to him.

Solicitor Dorsey wanted to know if Frank had said anything in addition to what he said to Darley about another suit: whether he mentioned breakfast or coffee or anything like that. Starnes said he did not hear anything like that. Frank appeared to be very nervous, said the witness. When pressed to particularize as to why Frank appeared nervous, Starnes said he showed himself nervous in contrast with other men there. Upon objection by Attorney Rosser, Judge Roan ruled out that portion of Starnes’ testimony relative to the contrast with other men’s appearance. Frank’s manner was nervous, said Starnes. He was rather “trembly,” not composed. Frank said Darley went upstairs somewhere. While telephoning to Frank, said Starnes, he did not tell Frank what had happened at the factory, nor did he do so when Frank came to the factory. He didn’t know Frank and didn’t speak to him.

About the t[i]me clock punch slips, Detective Starnes said that about a week after the murder, possibly Friday night, he read something in the paper which caused him to get out of bed and go to the factory. There he induced the night watchman to show him how the punch clock was operated. The watchman, said he, made a complete record of the dial in five minutes; and this record covered the half-hour punching periods from 6 to 6 o’clock, or twelve hours. Starnes said he was not present when Frank referred to Newt Lee’s punch slip record. Starnes identified the cord taken from Mary Phagan’s neck. He identified other similar cords which he himself had taken from the finishing room adjoining the metal department on the second floor of the factory. Each of these cords had a slip knot on it, just like the knot on the cord found around the girl’s neck. Starnes indicated on the diagram the room in which he found the cords.

FINDS BLOOD SPOTS.

Starnes continued that he had found a number of cords similar to that found around the neck of Mary Phagan’s body, in the factory, especially in the basement. He didn’t remember finding any more on the second floor. On Monday he was called to the factory and found on the floor about two and a half feet from the dressing room in the rear of the second floor some splotches which looked like blood. He described them as covering a spot about the size of his hand, with smaller drops spattered around. Over these blood spots had been smeared some whate [sic] substance.

He described in detail the rear of the building on the second floor, including the toilet and the door which leads to the steps going up to the third floor at the backs. He identified a picture on the diagram as being a reproduction of the fastenings on that door.

The witness said that on a nail about fifty feet from the partition on the second floor, about a third of the way from the double doors toward the elevator, he found a nail on the head of which there was some blood and he pulled it from the floor, and he took it to police headquarters. There was a little blood—just a little—about on the floor near the nail.

The distance between the double doors and the spot where he found the large blood stain in front of the dressing room, said he, is about thirteen feet.

Solicitor Dorsey concluded the direct examination by asking the detectives how long it takes a person to walk from Marietta street along Forsyth to the National Pencil factory?

“About three minutes,” answered the detective.

Attorney Rosser took up the cross-examination of Detective Starnes. The detective admitted that he had guessed at the length of time required by the walk from Marietta street to the pencil factory. The witness said he thought it should not take more than five minutes to get off a car on Marietta street, walk along Forsyth to the pencil factory and up the steps to Frank’s office.

STAPLE SLIGHTLY BENT.

Attorney Rosser secured an admission from Starnes that the staple pulled from the rear door was bent slightly. Attorney Rosser asked him about the finding of Mary Phagan’s hat on the trash pile. Starnes said that he picked it up from the trash pile about 6 o’clock on Sunday morning, but that he does not think he was the original discoverer of it. The shoe had been removed by another officer, he said. He said further that he found a gas pipe near the door, and that in his opinion it was used as a fulcrum for a lever with which the staple was pulled.

Attorney Rosser asked Starnes if, when he called Frank, “Boots” Rogers was standing near in the same room. Starnes did not remember. Attorney Rosser asked him if he hadn’t heard Boots Rogers’ testimony before the coroner’s jury about Starnes calling Frank on the telephone.

Solicitor Dorsey objected, and the point was argued about 10 minutes. Mr. Rosser contended that inasmuch as Starnes appears as the prosecutor, he immediately should have refuted any misstatement by Rogers.

ASKED TO REPEAT TESTIMONY.

Judge Roan instructed Mr. Rosser as to how he might ask thre [sic] question. Mr. Rosser, announcing that he wanted to test the memory of the witness, picked up the stenographic reports of the coroner’s inquest and requested him to repeat just wwhat he had testified on the two occasions when he appeared as a witness before the coroner.

Solicitor Dorsey objected immediately, declaring that such a question was not a proper one. It was irrelevant except for the purpose of impeaching the witness, he said. Mr. Rosser was endeavoring without calling the witness’ attention to any specific part of his testimony, to show that he couldn’t recall it and thereby discredit his recollection now of the telephone conversation.

Attorney Arnold, for the defense, answered this objection. “Your honor, my friend the solicitor has been complaining about the time wasted here on these controversies, and I dare say more time has been wasted right over this one point than would be required to develop the evidence we are seeking.”

“That’s all right,” shouted the solicitor. “I went to try this case according to law.”

“So do we,” declared Mr. Arnold. He argued that the defense desired to sift the witness in an effort to test his memory. If the witness’ memory about other details three days after the crime was defective, argued Mr. Arnold, still less dependence could be placed in it now several months after the murder. Judge Roan ruled that the defense should not ask the witness to repeat verbatim as he testified to before the coroner’s jury, but that the defense could outline some part of his testimony and ask him to repeat that.

Mr. Rosser propounded practically the same question as before.

Solicitor Dorsey objected vigorously again.

“I thought your honor had ruled on this point,” he declared.

“I have ruled,” said the judge.

“Well, then I want you to enforce the rule,” demanded the solicitor.

“Sit down and I will,” said the court.

DORSEY AGAIN OBJECTS.

Mr. Rosser renewed the argument as to his right to an answer to the question he had asked the witness. He said that he wanted the witness to repeat if he could just what he had told the coroner’s jury.

Solicitor Dorsey promptly entered another objection, insisting that Mr. Rosser should indicate to the witness just what portion of his testimony he desired him to repeat. Mr. Rosser then inquired if the witness could give the very words he used at the inquest. Starnes replied that he would find it difficult, adding that he wouldn’t say now that his version of the telephone conversation was a verbatim account of it, but that he had repeated it to the best of his recollection. Attorney Rosser asked the witness whether Frank had said anything in the telephone conversation which at that time appeared significant to the witness.

Solicitor Dorsey objected, declaring that it was totally irrelevant.

Judge Roan, however, permitted Mr. Rosser to proceed.

Starnes replied that he could not now recall that at the time he noticed anything about Frank’s conversation over the telephone.

Starnes testified that all of the blood spots had not been chipped from the floor of the factory when he was there the last time. Attorney Rosser asked him if the floor of the factory was not the dirtiest he had ever seen. Starnes declared that some aniline had been spilled around. He testified that he had not chipped up any of the blood spots around the nail. Attorney Rosser demanded why he did not testify at the inquest about Frank’s statement to the effect that he had another suit of clothes. The witness presumed no one had asked him about it there.

Mr. Rosser asked “Wasn’t that statement made in a joking manner?”

“Sort of that way,” said Starnes.

“Did you ever find Mary Phagan’s purse or the ribbons and flowers which were around her hat?”

He had not, said the witness. This concluded the cross examination.

On re-direct examination, Solicitor Dorsey asked: “You don’t know, do you, that she had a purse?”

“No, I do not,” answered Starnes.

GUARDED IN CONVERSATION.

After a clash between the attorneys, Judge Roan allowed Dorsey to ask the witness this question:

“Were you guarded in your telephone conversation with Frank?”

“I was,” said the witness.

“What did you mean by ‘casual’ conversation?”

“Just the conversation of two gentlemen over the telephone,” answered Starnes.

Starnes said he called Frank over the telephone soon after he had talked with Lee and Detective John Black.

Solicitor Dorsey put this question:

“Did anybody else about the factory joke on this Sunday morning after Mary Phagan’s murdered body had been found, except this defendant, Leo M. Frank?”

The question caused another wrangle, and finally was admitted by Judge Roan after Solicitor Dorsey argued that Attorney Rosser had brought out the admission that the remark about having another suit was made by Frank jokingly.

Starnes replied that he didn’t remember anybody else joking, unless possibly it was Mr. Darley, with whom Frank had been talking.

Solicitor Dorsey exhibited two chips of wood, removed from the floor of the second story and supposed to contain blood spots. Ctarnes [sic} identified them as the chips, to a reasonable certainty, which he got from the floor, the only difference that he could see ebing [sic] that they were somewhat cleaner than when he saw them last.

“Whom did you give the chips to?”

“To Chief Lanford,” replied Starnes.

He didn’t know what became of them after that, he said.

Solicitor Dorsey asked Starnes about an agreement between Chief Lanford and Frank, whereby the latter was to be placed under guard at police headquarters instead of being locked in a cell. He didn’t know anything of his own knowledge about this, said Starnes. Both sides announced that they were through with Detective Starnes, and he left the witness stand.

The chips identified by Starnes were offered in evidence, along with some other articles, the cord which was found around the girl’s neck; the hat, shoes, dress, underskirt, hair ribbons, stockings and other articles of wearing apparel; the strip torn from the bottom of her underskirt and found around her neck and a bloody handkerchief. All of this was admitted in evidence except the handkerchief. Attorney Rosser objected to that because it had not been identified. Mr. Dorsey recalled Starnes, and show him two more chips of wood similar to the others which he had identified. Starnes recognized these as two that he took from the rear door. They also were supposed to have blood on them. They were admitted in evidence.

At the conclusion of this identification, Attorney Rosser asked Starnes if he knew anything else about the case more than he had stated already. Solicitor oDrsey [sic] objected. Another wrangle followed. Judge Roan allowed Mr. Rosser to put the question. Starnes said he didn’t recall anything of importance at that time, that he had not told.

Solicitor oDrsey asked Judge Roan if he wannted [sic] any more witnesses “this afternoon?”

“Have you got any short ones?” inquired the judge.

The Solicitor replied in the negative.

Solicitor Dorsey sought to offer the large framed diagram in evidence.

JURY ORDERED OUT.

Attorney Rosser said, “Wait a minute till I can take a look at it.” He read the key to the diagram and exclaimed, “Oh, no, this will never go into evidence. If my brother wants to insist on it, why I ask that the jury be excused while we argue it.”

Judge Roan ordered the jury out.

The lawyers argued the admissibility of the diagram. It was taken from the wall and put down on the floor against the witness stand. Frank pulled his chair to a position in front of it and sat there examining it for a few moments, with Attorney Rosser on one side and Attorney Arnold on the other. Mr. Rosser turned to the court.

“Your honor, this thing is not admissible,” said he. “Just let me read you some of the things that are printed on it. ‘Black dotted line indicates course taken by accused.’ Why, your honor, this is a marvel! ‘Red dotted line indicates course taken by accused to toilet.’ Maltese cross indicates where girl was murdered and where her body was found in the basement. I didn’t know that the boys would hand me this kind of a lemon!”

Solicitor Dorsey smilingly said, “Well I thought you agreed to it.”

“I didn’t think you or my friend Hooper would try to put such a thing as this over me—seriously. I didn’t,” said Mr. Rosser.

KNEW IT WASN’T ADMISSIBLE.

“We know, your honor, that is wasn’t admissible as evidence,” said Mr. Dorsey, laughing. “We understood the defense, however, to agree to let it in and we would prefer to have it in like it is.”

“Pictures are the best arguments in the world,” remarked Attorney Arnold. “Illustrated papers are the best means of converging ideas. This thing is nothing more nor less than an argument for the state’s theory, and it should not have been hung here before the jury. I have never examined it closely or I would have objected. It states as clearly as anything can state that the tragedy happened in the metal room, and this is one of the points of issue in this case. This diagram ought not to show anything but the physical facts. It ought never to have been displayed before the jury.”

Solicitor Dorsey addressed the court.

“They object to the key of the diagram,” said he. “We are willing to strike that off. With the key off, it should be admissible.”

Judge Roan ruled that the simple diagram was admissible as evidence, but that anything appearing upon it as argument for the state or for the defense was not admissible. Attorney Arnold insisted that the dotted lines on the diagram were more potent arguments than the key itself. Solicitor Dorsey then announced that the state would withdraw the diagram at this time, indicating that it would be offered again later.

Court then was adjourned at 4:55 until Wednesday morning at 9 o’clock.

Another in our series of new transcriptions of contemporary articles on the Leo Frank case.

Atlanta Georgian
July 30^th, 1913

That a sensation is be sprung by the defense by the production of the mysteriously missing ribbon and flowers from the hat of the murdered girl was repeatedly indicated by Attorney Rosser’s line of questioning Tuesday and the afternoon before.

Beginning with Mrs. J. W. Coleman, mother of Mary Phagan, the attorney for Frank interrogated every witness who saw the girl alive or dead that day in regard to the ribbon and flowers.

Mrs. Coleman said that the ribbon and flowers were on the hat when Mary left home. Newt Lee said that he had seen no sign of the missing trimmings. The testimony of Sergeant L. S. Dobbs was the same. Detective Starnes, when he was turned over the cross-examination, made the same admission.

It is believed that Rosser will produce the ribbon and will attempt to establish that it was found in a place throwing suspicion upon the negro Conley.

Frank was brought to the courthouse at about 8 o’clock Wednesday morning. There was no change in his demeanor or physical appearance. If the trial has been any strain upon him he does not display the effects. He was dressed in the dark mohair suit he wore Tuesday. He greeted his friends cheerily and spoke confidently of acquittal.

The jurors, sleeping in three rooms at the Kimball House, spent a restless night. They appeared rather fagged when they were brought into the courtroom at 9 o’clock.

First Witnesses Unimportant.

Attorneys for the State have announced that the witnesses called Monday and Tuesday were only for the purpose of starting the presentation of evidence against Leo Frank right from the opening incidents of the day that the murder was committed, and that they were important only in so far as they assisted in making a continuous chain of evidence, and as they made here and there statements which might be interpreted as damaging to the accused.

Working on the foundation laid by Tuesday’s testimony, Solicitor Dorsey was understood to be prepared Wednesday and Thursday to introduce witnesses who would swear that the red stains found in two places on the second floor were splotches of blood and not aniline or any other coloring stain; also that the bloody fingerprints on the rear door of the basement were the finger-prints of Leo M. Frank.

City Detective J. N. Starnes just before he left the stand Tuesday night identified pieces of wood as pieces he had chipped from the rear door of the factory. There were finger-prints easily distinguishable upon the employ of Solicitor Dorsey for some time during the investigation of the murder mystery and was named among the State’s witnesses.

The red-stained chips from the factory floor were sent to Dr. Claude E. Smith, city bacteriologist, for analysis. Dr. Smith also is one of the State’s witnesses and was expected to be called Wednesday or during Thursday’s forenoon session.

Writing Pad Evidence?

Starnes was on the stand practically all of Tuesday afternoon. While the direct examination was in progress the detective told of his part in scouring the pencil factory for evidence.

One of his statements on which the State is relying to establish that Frank acted and talked in an incriminating manner the morning the body was found consisted in his testimony in regard to a telephone conversation which he said he had with the factory superintendent that morning.

Starnes, under the examination of Dorsey, said that he had been very guarded when he called up Frank that morning and had merely said that he desired Frank’s presence at the factory. He denied that he had mentioned the fact that a girl had been killed.

Claim Frank Knew.

It is the purpose of the State to seek to establish that Frank, without being told of what had happened, had made remarks to the officers when they came for him which indicated he was not unaware that a girl had been murdered in his factory.

The main points of Starnes’ testimony were:

That he had discovered stains resembling blood in two places on the second floor of the factory.

That Frank acted nervous when brought to the factory.

That Frank made a strange remark to Foreman M. B. Darley that he “had more than one suit of clothes,” referring to the fact that he had on a different suit than the one he wore the day before.

That Lee appeared composed when questioned Sunday by the detectives.

That he witnessed the new night watchman in the pencil factory make a complete punch of the time clock covering a period of twelve hours in five minutes.

Under Rosser’s cross-examination Starnes admitted that it was practically impossible for him to remember the exact words he used in certain parts of his testimony at the Coroner’s inquest. This admission was obtained by Rosser to show that Starnes’ memory in respect to the telephone conversation with Frank could not be regarded as any more reliable. Rosser brought out that Starnes failed to mention at the Coroner’s inquest either the matter of the telephone conversation or of the alleged conversation he held with Frank the morning of the murder.

Another in our series of new transcriptions of contemporary articles on the Leo Frank case.

Atlanta Georgian
July 30^th, 1913

STATE ADDS NEW LINK TO EVIDENCE CHAIN BY BOOTS ROGERS’ STORY

Sensational testimony by J. M. Gantt, discharged pencil factory employee, was promised Wednesday by Solicitor Dorsey and Frank A. Hooper, who is assisting him. They admitted that Gantt had testimony that had never before been published and would be one of the State’s most material and direct witnesses.

The defense has heard that Gantt will testify he saw Frank and Conley together on the day of the crime. Gantt was expected to follow Grace Hicks on the stand.

The State added another link in the chain of circumstantial evidence it is seeking to forge about Leo M. Frank by calling W. W. (Boots) Rogers to the stand Wednesday.

Rogers is the former county officer in whose automobile the policemen went to the National Pencil Factory Sunday morning after Newt Lee, factory nightwatchman, had called up the police station.

Rogers was on the stand two hours, but in this time he failed to give any material evidence that had not already been presented to the Coroner’s Jury.

As in the testimony of Sergeant L. S. Dobbs, another of the persons who visited the factory the morning after the crime, it was the purpose of Solicitor Dorsey to emphasize the circumstances which he later proposes to construe as highly significant of Frank’s guilt.

Frank Laughs for First Time.

During the testimony of Rogers, Frank laughed heartily for the first time since the trial began—in fact, it was the first display of any emotion that the defendant has made.

Rogers was telling of his visit in the Frank residence at No. 68 East Georgia avenue when the incident occurred which aroused Frank’s laughter.

The ex-county officer said that Detective Black had suggested that a drink of whiskey would do Frank good. Rogers said that Mrs. Frank had said that her father, Mr. Selig, had suffered an attack of acute indigestion and that there was no whisky left in the house.

“He had had an attack of acute indigestion and drank up all the liquor,” repeated Attorney Rosser, humorously, “Well, I have those attacks occasionally myself.”

Defense Hints Attack Theory.

Miss Grace Hicks, of No. 100 McDonough road, followed Rogers on the stand and Solicitor Dorsey, after having her tell of identifying Mary Phagan the morning after the murder, started at once on a line of questioning that indicated his theory that Mary Phagan was first attacked in or near the women’s toilet on the second floor of the factory.

Attorney Rosser, on cross-examination, brought out that Frank seldom spoke to the girls and that she did not know that he was familiar with them.

The most important points in the testimony of “Boots” Rogers in the re-direct examination were:

That he heard Detective Starnes make no mention of what had happened at the factory when Starnes called Frank Sunday morning.

That Frank, although the interval between calling him and the arrival of Rogers’ car at Frank’s home was only five or six minutes, was dressed for the street, except for collar, tie, coat and hat.

Says Frank Was Nervous.

That Frank’s shirt had the appearance of being freshly laundered.

That Frank appeared nervous and asked of Detective John Black if anything had happened at the factory, and if the nightwatchman had reported anything to the police.

That Frank’s words were jumpy; that he continuously was rubbing his hands, and that he moved about nervously.

That t[h]e defendant, when he was taken to the undertaking room, avoided going into the room, where the Phagan girl’s body lay, and that he never looked into the face of the girl whom the State charges was his victim.

That Frank still was nervous when taken to the factory. That he witnessed Frank take the tape from the time clock and heard him remark that the punches were correct. That he (Rogers), while Frank was in the office after a blank tape, examined the tape taken from the clock and saw that none of the punches had been missed.

Mincey, the star witness for the defense, was not in the witness room Wednesday, nor was he there Tuesday. The prosecution openly stated it did not expect Mincey to be introduced as a witness. Attorney Arnold would not discuss Mincey’s absence, but declared that he would be on hand at the proper time.

Factory Diagram Changed.

Court opened Wednesday with a discussion of the admissibility of the diagram of the pencil factory drawn by Bert Green, a Georgian staff artist. The key to the diagram and all objectionable wording had been removed.

Attorney Arnold still objected to the lines which he claimed outlined the theory of the prosecution.

“You don’t have to label a horse to see it as a horse,” he said.

Solicitor Dorsey cited legal authority which he claimed entitled him to present the diagram as evidence. Attorney Arnold said:

“Those dotted lines have nothing to do with the building proper at all. It undertakes to show something that the building itself wouldn’t show.”

Revised Chart Admitted.

When Solicitor Dorsey started to continued his argument Judge Roan interrupted and said:

“Do you mean for the dotted lines to show the theory of the prosecution?”

“Yes,” answered Dorsey.

“But,” continued the judge, “it is with the jury as to whether you prove this to be the correct theory or not.”

“Yes,” said Dorsey.

“On those grounds then I admit it as evidence,” said Judge Roan.

W. W. Rogers, the county policeman, who was one of the first to visit the scene of the crime, was the first witness of the day called.

Rogers on the Stand.

The jury was brought in after the picture was admitted.

The men filed into their seats, showing for the first time some signs of the long hours of confinement.

“Call W. W. Rogers to the stand,” said Solicitor Dorsey, announcing his first witness.

The young man, who took the police to the scene of the crime early that Sunday morning was sworn.

Q. Where were you Saturday night, April 26?—At the station house.

Q. Where were you at [several words illegible] […]

FRANK LAUGHS FOR FIRST TIME DURING TRIAL WHEN HOME INCIDENT IS TOLD

[…] o’clock Sunday morning?—A. I was still there.

Q. Where did you got from there?—A. I took the police to the pencil factory, where they had been called.

Q. What did you do then?—A. After a negro let us in I went down into the basement with the police and found the body.

Present as Starnes Phoned.

Q. Were you present when Detective Starnes called someone over the telephone?—A. Yes.

Q. What time was sit?—A. About 5 or 5:30 Sunday morning.

Q. Did you know who he called?—A. No.

Q. What did he say?—A. I don’t recall exactly, but in substance he was asking some one to come to the factory. I heard him say, “If you will come I will send an automobile for you.” He turned to me and asked me if I would go to Mr. Frank’s home and get him. He gave us the address and Detective Black went with me. Detective Black went to the door. I won’t be sure whether he knocked or rang the bell. Mrs. Frank answered the door. She had on a heavy blue bathrobe. We asked if Frank was there, and he came through the curtain into the reception hall.

Q. Was he dressed for the street?—A. Yes, with the exception of collar and coat.

Q. Can you tell exactly what he had on?—A. A pair of shoes, blue trousers, white pleated shirt and suspenders.

Neither Answered Frank.

Q. What was said?—A. When Frank came in he went directly to Black. He asked him, ‘Has anything happened at the factory?’ Black did not answer him, and, turning to me, he asked the same question. I did not answer.

Q. What else did he say?—A. He asked, “Did the nightwatchman telephone you anything had happened at the factory?”

Q. What else?—A. Black did not answer him then, but told him he had better come to the factory.

Q. What did Starnes say to Frank over the phone besides what you have already told?

“I object,” said Attorney Rosser, “on the ground that it is essentially a leading question.”

“You will have to put the question differently,” said Judge Roan to Mr. Dorsey.

Tells of Phone Talk.

Q. Detail, now, that Mr. Starnes said first.—A. Mr. Starnes was talking to someone over the telephone. I won’t be sure whether he told him who it was or not. He asked this party he was talking to to come to the factory. He said if he would, he would send an automobile for him. With that he turned to me and asked me to go to Frank’s house and get him.

Q. Did you hear anyone else call from the factory?—A. Soon after we reached the pencil factory, about 3:30 o’clock, I was up in the office with Policeman Anderson and Newt Lee. Anderson was trying to get someone over the phone. I don’t know who it was.

Q. What else happened at Frank’s home?—A. I think he asked his wife for his collar and coat.

Q. Was that all?—A. All I remember.

“Your honor,” said Mr. Dorsey, “he has clearly overlooked something. Can I direct his attention to it?”

Frank Recalled a Dream.

“How do you know it?” interrupted Rosser.

“I have his testimony before the Coroner’s jury and I have talked to him,” said Dorsey.

“Oh, Lord,” growled Rosser as he sat down.

Q. What was said about a dream?—A. Mr. Frank said something about dreaming or hearing the telephone during the night.

Q. Was anything said about whisky?—A. Yes; Mr. Frank said he had not had breakfast. He thought he would like to have a cup of coffee. Detective Black said a drink of whisky might do him some good. Mrs. Frank answered that Mrs. Selig had been ill with acute indigestion and had used all of the whisky in the house.

Q. How was Frank’s voice that morning?—A. He was nervous.

Q. What about his voice? Was it fine?—A. Yes, it was fine; somewhat like a woman’s. He asked questions rather abrupt, right off the reel. His questions were jumpy.

Appeared Very Nervous.

Q. What was his appearance when you first saw him?—A. He was rubbing his hands and was extremely nervous.

Q. Was his hair combed or tousled?—A. It was combed.

Q. What was the conversation on the way to the factory?—A. Black or myself—I don’t remember which—asked him if he knew a little girl named Mary Phagan. He asked if she worked at the pencil factory and we told him we thought she did. He said he would have to look on his pay roll to see if she did; that he didn’t know many of the girls there and that he never went out into the factory among them much. We suggested that we had better go by the undertaking establishment and let him see the body.

Q. Describe how you found the body?—A. The room was dark. Undertaker Gheesling went back of the body and turned on the light. The head of the dead girl was toward the wall. Ghe[e]sling took her face in his hands and turned it toward us. Mr. Frank had been behind me as we entered the room, but when Ghe[e]sling turned the girl’s face to me I looked around and Frank was going out of the room.

Didn’t See Her Face.

Q. How long did he have to see the face?—A. He didn’t have any time for when her face was turned to the light he had stepped outside the room.

Q. Did you ask him any questions?—A. Mr. Black asked him if he recognized the body. He said if her name was Mary Phagan he could tell whether she worked at the factory by looking over his pay roll.

Q. What was his attitude at the undertaker’s establishment?—A. He still appeared nervous.

Q. How?—A. Well, he stepped lively and moved quickly.

Frank sat passive during these questions, his expressions an enigma. His wife and mother on each side of him appeared weary.

Frank Looked at Books.

Q. What did Frank do when they got to the factory?—A. Frank went to the office and unlocked the safe. He got a book and ran his hand down a column and said: “Yes, Mary Phagan worked here; if I am not mistaken she was here Saturday and drew her pay.” He said it was some time a little after 12 o’clock. He asked us if we didn’t find a pay envelope near her body. We told him no.

Q. What was the time exactly, according to Frank?—A. He just said it was something a little after 12.

Q. What was his manner?—A. He was nervous and quick.

Q. What was done about running the elevator?—A. I don’t remember exactly who said it, but some one suggested that we see where the girl was murdered. Frank went out to the switchbox and opened it, and after he had turned on a few things the machinery began to run.

Tried to Start Elevator.

Q. Did anyone ask him about the switch box not being locked?—A. He said the insurance company had him stop locking it, saying it was against the law.

Q. Did Frank run the elevator?—A. He pulled the rope to start it, but it would not move. He called Darley and the elevator was started after some delay.

Q. Did anyone comment on the murder?—A. I think Mr. Frank said Darley had worked Newt Lee and that if anyone could get anything out of him it was Darley.

Q. What else happened?—A. Frank said: “We had better nail the back door, Darley.”

Q. What was done?—A. Frank and Darley went to nail the back door.

Q. What did you do then?—A. Frank said: “I guess we had better put in a new tape, Darley.” He then took the tape out of the box and remarked, “They are all punched all right.”

Frank Brought New Slip.

Q. Where was Newt Lee?—A. Lee was right behind me, handcuffed.

Q. Where was Darley?—A. He was right there.

Q. What happened next?—A. Mr. Frank went to his office, brought out a new slip. He took out the old slip and wrote on it April 26, 1913.

Q. What did he do with it?—A. He folded it once and went into his office.

Q. Did you see that slip?—A. Yes, I glanced at it. The first punch was 6:01 and the second at 6:32. There did not appear to be any skip in it.

Q. Did you hear Frank say anything about something to eat?—A. Yes, several times he said he wanted to get a cup of coffee.

Attorney Rosser objected.

Didn’t Notice His Eyes.

“Maybe several wanted a drink—I expect they did,” he said.

Solicitor Dorsey continued.

Q. Did you notice Frank’s eyes during the stay in the factory?—A. No.

Q. How long did you and Frank remain in the factory?—A. I should say something more than an hour.

Q. Where did you go?—A. In the automobile with Lee, Darley, Black and Frank to the police station.

Q. Was anybody under arrest?—A. Lee.

Q. Was Frank?—A. I didn’t consider him so.

Q. What happened at the station?—A. They took Frank up to Chief Lanford’s office.

Q. Did you see Frank do any writing?—A. I saw Newt Lee write, but not Frank.

Dorsey again wanted to refresh Rogers’ memory about his testimony before the Coroner’s jury. Rosser again objected. Judge Roan declared the witness could not be led.

Q. Did you see the officers do anything with Frank and Lee at the station?—A. I saw them take Mr. Frank and Lee up the stairs.

Q. Did you see Frank with a pencil?—A. I can’t say that I did or did not. I was around there so much and saw so much.

Q. What was Frank’s attitude at the station?—A. He appeared nervous, as he had all the morning.

Q. Did you or not have occasion to observe Frank’s hand at the police station?—A. No, sir, I did not.

Rosser Takes Witness.

Mr. Rosser then took up the cross-examination.

Q. You never saw Frank before that morning.—A. No.

Q. You don’t know whether what you considered his nervousness was natural to him or not?—A. No.

Q. How long after you had knocked at Frank’s door was it before Frank came?—A. About a minute or two.

Q. You went to the factory with the police?—A. Yes.

Q. You had some trouble in finding whether the child was black or white?—A. Yes.

Q. Didn’t someone have to pull down her stocking and look at the flesh before they could tell her color?—A. Yes, I believe so.

Tells of Victim’s Face.

Q. Was there dirt on her face?—A. Yes, and some in her eyes.

Q. How long were you at Frank’s home?—A. About fifteen minutes.

Q. It took that long for the things you have told us to happen?—A. Yes.

Q. Are you sure of it?—A. Pretty sure.

Q. You don’t know what time it was when you went to the undertaker’s? You don’t know whether it was 7 o’clock or not, do you?—A. I can’t be sure of that. I am trying to refresh my memory as best I can.

Q. Did you swear to that conversation with Frank about the pay envelope at the Coroner’s inquest?—A. Yes. I told something about it.

Q. Are you as sure of that as the other things you have sworn to this morning?—A. I am sure I said something about it.

Visit to Frank’s Home.

Q. Was anything said about a little drink doing you all good?—A. Yes. When we were at Frank’s home Black said something about a drink. Mrs. Frank called to Mrs. Selig and she said there was no whisky in the house; that Mr. Selig had an attack of indigestion the night before and used it all.

Q. When you were at the undertaker’s, how did you get to the chapel—A. We went down a long corridor.

Q. Did you know that Ghe[e]sling, standing in front of the corpse, saw Frank looking at it?—A. No.

Q. Then you won’t say that Frank didn’t see the young girl’s face?—A. I do say that it would have been impossible for anyone to see her face when it was turned to the wall, and I can swear that no one but Mr. Ghe[e]sling and I went up to the corpse.

Might Have Seen Body.

Q. Wasn’t it possible that Frank saw the body and the face at the same time you did and turned his head at the same time you did?—A. Yes, I suppose so.

Q. Did Frank have any trouble unlocking the safe at the office? Did he work the combination the first time?—A. Yes, without any trouble.

Q. Mr. Frank tried the elevator and couldn’t?—A. Yes.

Q. He called Mr. Darley?—A. Yes.

Q. Did it run smoothly when it started?—A. Yes.

Q. Did it stop with a jerk when it reached the bottom?—A. No; it just stopped.

No Stains in Sawdust.

Q. Was there blood on the sawdust where you found the body?—A. No; we couldn’t find any.

Q. Was there blood anywhere?—A. Yes; some on her underskirt.

Q. Was there blood on her head?—A. Yes, there was some dry blood matted in the hair.

Q. Was there blood running anywhere on the body?—A. I don’t remember any.

Q. Who turned her over?—A. Sergeant Dobbs, I believe.

Q. Were you there when they found the shoe?—A. No.

Q. Were the shoe and hat found that morning?—A. They were not before I left to get Grace Hicks to identify the body.

Went to Station With Party.

Q. How did it happen that Frank went with you to the police station? Did he volunteer to go?—A. I don’t know exactly. He went along with the party without any hesitancy.

The question was interrupted by a whispered conference between Rosser and Arnold; then Rosser continued.

Q. When Mrs. Frank was telephoning to Darley; how far were you from the telephone?—A. About 6 feet.

The re-direct examination was begun by Dorsey:

Q. Could you tell by a glance at the hair whether the girl was white or not?—A. Yes, you couldn’t tell by the face, but it was evident it was the hair of a white girl.

Couldn’t Have Seen Face.

Q. Did you say Frank did or did not see that girl’s face in the undertaking establishment?

“I object,” said Rosser.

“You can ask only what opportunities he had to see the face,” answered Judge Roan.

A. He couldn’t see it because her body was not lying so that he could.

Rosser said: “Mr. Rogers, didn’t you tell me that you didn’t know where Mr. Frank was when you looking at the girl’s face?”—A. Yes; but he couldn’t have seen it, unless he was standing near me, and he wasn’t standing near me.

Dorsey asked: “Did Frank ever go into the room in which the body was?”—A. To the best of my knowledge he did not. He went in the direction of the toilet, or a room which I took to be a toilet.

Grace Hicks on Stand.

Rogers was then excused, and Miss Grace Hicks went on the stand. She was questioned by Dorsey.

Q. Did you know Mary Phagan?

At this point members of the jury asked for water and while it was being secured for them, Frank leaned over and held a whispered conversation with Rosser.

The question was repeated.

A. Mighty near a year.

Q. Where did you know her?—A. At the National Pencil Factory.

Q. Did you identify her body the morning after the crime?—A. Yes.

Knew Her By Hair.

Q. How did you know her?—A. By looking at her.

[several words illegible] [s]poke in a very soft voice. She appeared about 16 years of age. She wore a white dress with light blue ribbons around her neck and elbow sleeves.

Q. How was she when you saw her?—A. She was covered except her head.

Q. How did you know her?—A. By her hair. It was so long and pretty.

Q. Where did you work?—A. In the metal room.

Q. What did you do first when you went to the factory each day?—A. Punched the clock.

At Factory Every Day.

Q. How often was Mary at the factory?—A. Nearly every day.

Q. Where was Mary’s work place?—A. Right next to the dressing room.

Q. Did you see where the blood was?—A. Yes.

Q. A person going from the office back to the rear of the second floor would have had to pass the dressing room, the place near where Mary Phagan worked, wouldn’t they?—A. Yes.

Q. Did Frank pass there every day?—A. Almost every day. He would come back two or three times a day to see how the work was going on.

Q. When was Mary at the factory last to work?—A. The Monday before April 26.

Saturday Regular Pay Day.

Q. Why didn’t she work that week?—A. The metal had given out.

Q. Where was the metal kept?—A. In a little closet under the stairway.

Q. When was the regular pay day?—A. Saturday at 12.

Q. Was anyone paid off Saturday, April 26?—A. Most of them were paid on the Friday night before, as Saturday was a holiday.

Dorsey then had the witness point out the machinery where Mary Phagan worked on the second floor, as shown on the Bert Green diagram. Then Rosser took the witness on cross-examination.

[This section added from the Home edition of Atlanta Georgian]

Never Spoke to the Girls.

Q. You worked there a year?—A. I worked there five years. Mary worked there a year.

Q. In those five years how many times did you speak to Mr. Frank?—A. Three times.

Q. How many times did you see him speak to Mary Phagan?—A. None.

Q. Did he ever speak to the girls when he came through the metal room?—A. No.

Q. What did he say to you the time he spoke to you?—A. He was passing through the room one day with a visitor. I was leaning my head on my hand. He said: “You can run this machine asleep, can’t you?” The other times he spoke to me on the street.

Q. Did he know your name?—A. I don’t know; he knew my face.

Combed Hair at Machines.

Q. Miss Grace, there was a place up there where you combed your hair, wasn’t there?—A. Yes.

Q. Where was it?—A. Sometimes we combed our hair at the machines.

Q. What color was Mary Phagan’s hair?—A. It was sandy, darker than mine.

Q. How far from the machine where you saw and combed your hair, was the lathe where the strands of hair were found?—A. About 15 feet.

Q. Was there another girl who sat near Mary who had hair like her’s?—A. Yes, Magnolia sat on one side of her and I sat on the other. Magnolia’s hair was sandy, too.

Q. You went on Friday to get your pay with the other girls, didn’t you?—A. Yes, sir.

Frank Not Paying Workers.

Q. Who was paying off, Mr. Frank?—A. No, I don’t remember who. It wasn’t Mr. Frank, though.

Q. Whom did you see there?—A. Magnolia Kennedy and Helen Ferguson.

Q. Who were the other girls in your department?—A. None other but Mary.

Q. What did you do in that department?—A. Cut metal tips.

Q. What time did they pay off on Friday?—A. About 6 or 7 o’clock, a little later than usual.

Q. Wasn’t there placards in the factory stating that Saturday would be a holiday?—A. I didn’t see any. I didn’t know there was to be a holiday until Mr. Quinn told me.

Solicitor Dorsey then took up the redirect examination.

Q. If there had been any cards stating there was to be a holiday you would have seen them, wouldn’t you?—A. Yes, I think I would.

Q. When did you know there was to be a holiday?—A. When Mr. Quinn informed me Friday.

Q. Do you still work at the pencil factory?—A. Yes.

Q. Do you still work at the pencil factory?—A. Yes.

Q. How do you know that a man sitting at Frank’s desk could not see a person registering?—A. I don’t know.

Q. You say there was paint around the machine?—A. There was paint in the polishing room.

Q. How far is it from the end of the dressing room where they say blood was found to the polishing room?—A. Four or five feet.

Q. How far back in the room do they keep the paint?—A. On all the machines.

Saw No Red Paint on Floor.

Q. Did you ever see any on Mary’s machine?—A. No.

Q. Was the paintroom off and separate?—A. Yes.

Q. Did they keep paint out where Mary’s machine and dressing room were?—A. No.

Q. Did you ever see any outside?—A. Sometimes drops on the floor where the women come out to get water.

Q. Was it easy to tell whether it was paint or blood?—A. I never saw any red paint on the floor.

Here Attorney Rosser took up the recross-examination.

Q. They did have red paint in there, and they could have dropped it?—A. Yes, sir.

Q. It was hard to tell what color it was, after it hit the floor, wasn’t it?—A. The floor was awful dirty.

Detective Black Called.

Detective John R. Black followed Miss Hix to the stand. Solicitor Dorsey questioned him.

Q. Where were you working before you went with the police department?—A. Atlanta Brewing and Ice Company.

Q. Who owned the stock of that company?—A. McCandless—

Here Attorney Rosser jumped to his feet.

“I object,” he exclaimed, “That can have no bearing on this case.”

“I agree with you,” ruled Judge Roan.

Q. When did you first see Newt Lee, the day the crime was reported?—A. About 5 or 5:30 o’clock in the morning.

Tells of Visit to Frank Home.

Q. Did anyone call Mr. Frank?—A. Mr. Starnes called Frank and asked him if he would come to the pencil factory.

Q. Was that all?—A. All that I can recall.

Q. Describe what happened when you went to Frank’s house.—A. I went to the door and rang the bell. Mrs. Frank came to the door and asked what we wanted. I told her I was detective from the police station and wanted to see Mr. Frank. Almost at once he stepped from behind some curtains. He asked almost immediately if anything had happened at the factory.

Knew Frank Previously.

Q. Did you know Frank before you went to the factory?—A. Yes, I saw him about two years ago and again about eighteen months ago.

Q. Then you knew him?—A. Yes.

Q. Did you know him or recognize him, when you saw him that Sunday morning?—A. No.

Q. Was Frank nervous or excited when you saw him two years ago?—A. No.

Here Attorney Rosser objected to the testimony being given along this line. Attorney Arnold also arose to his feet and said:

“No police officer can give an opinion as to how a man looks!”

Judge Roan said:

“Now, Mr. Black, state the facts and give your reasons.”

Says Frank Was Nervous.

Q. When you saw Frank the morning of April 27, did he seem nervous?—A. Yes.

Q. Why?—A. Because he had some considerable trouble putting on a collar. It seemed that he couldn’t tie his necktie, and he kept asking fast questions. He asked real quick: “Has anything happened at the pencil factory?” And before I could answer, he asked: “Did the night watchman report it?”

Q. Did he express any anxiety to go to the pencil factory?

Rosser objected with: “That is merely a conclusion, your honor.”

Frank Without Breakfast.

“Let him state exactly what happened, and the jury can draw their conclusions,” said Judge Roan.

Q. Did he ask for anything before leaving home?—A. He kept saying he had had no breakfast and would like to get some before he left.

Q. Did he mention anything else about breakfast?—A. Yes, he told Chief Lanford at the factory that he had had no breakfast.

Q. Tell everything he said in the automobile about the murder?—A. I asked him if he knew a girl named Mary Phagan, who had been found dead there. He said no, but he could tell from the records.

Q. What happened at the undertakers?—A. We went in and the man pulled the cover back. Frank looked at her for a second.

Stopped Behind Curtain.

Q. Are you sure he saw her face?—A. No, but I think so.

Q. Where did Rogers go when Ghe[e]sling turned the girl’s face?—A. I don’t know.

Q. Where did Frank go?—A. He stepped aside. There was a curtain hanging there and he stepped behind it.

Q. What did Frank do after he stepped behind the curtain?—A. I don’t know.

Q. Did he get a better view of the body from there?—A. He didn’t get any view at all.

Q. Did Frank ever go into the room where the body was?—A. He passed by it when we first entered the establishment.

Q. With that exception, did he ever go into the room?—A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. How long after he went behind the curtain did you see him?—A. In a few minutes we went out to the automobile.

Q. Was he going toward the body or away from it?—A. Away from it.

Q. State whether or not Frank said anything—

Not Sure of Girl’s Identity.

Here Attorney Rosser objected:

“Your honor, my friend evidently learned under a pastmaster the art of asking leading questions,” said Rosser.

“I want a ruling on this question,” returned Dorsey, “It is not leading.”

Judge Roan overruled the objection.

“Well, your honor sustains me and overrules Mr. Rosser,” said Dorsey, “The witness will answer the question.”

A. Frank said he was not sure he could identify her, but thought from her clothes she was the girl he had paid off Saturday. He said he could tell by looking at his pay roll.

At 12:30 o’clock court adjourned until 2 o’clock.

Attracted by the report that the State intended to introduce its most important witnesses during the day, a larger crowd than that which clamored for admission on the first two days of the trial besieged the courthouse Wednesday morning as the time for the resumption of the Frank trial approached.

[This section is from an Extra of the Atlanta Georgian]

Wife Cheers Frank.

For several minutes before Judge Roan called the court to order for the afternoon session Mrs. Frank sat with her arm around her husband’s shoulder, laughing and carrying on a happy conversation. Frank was visibly cheered by her.

Detective Black, who was on the stand at the noon adjournment, was recalled to the stand. Solicitor Dorsey delayed the questioning several minutes, waiting for Attorney Arnold to arrive. Then he proceeded.

Q. What examination of the clock did Frank make before he said it was punched correctly?—A. He took out the tape and examined it. He said the punches were right until 2:30.

Q. When did Frank first say the clock was not punched correctly?—A. He told me Tuesday.

Gave Slip to Lanford.

Q. Did he have the slip?—A. Yes, he had given it to Chief Lanford Monday.

Q. What did he do with the slip he took out Sunday morning?—A. He took it into his office.

Q. Do you know whether this is the slip he took from the clock?—A. No.

Q. When did you first hear that Frank had said there were three misses?—A. I don’t recall.

Q. At that time, who was being held.—A. Newt Lee.

Q. Frank had not been arrested?—A. No.

Q. What skips did Frank say Newt Lee had made?—A. I think it was from 10 until 11:30—I can’t recall exactly.

Attorneys Clash Again.

Q. How long after he was arrested did he employ counsel?

Attorney Arnold here objected.

“This witness does not know who employed counsel or whether they ever employed counsel, and besides he would have been in a mighty bad fix if he hadn’t,” declared Attorney Arnold. “It is also immaterial and irrelevant. What do you say, Mr. Dorsey?”

Dorsey replied:

“I want to show that this man employed counsel before he was arrested or even a su[s]pect, and I want to show it as one of the circumstances that led to this prosecution.”

Judge Overrules Objection.

Judge Roan overruled the objection, saying that in his opinion the Solicitor’s reason was material.

Q. State when Frank first had counsel.—A. About 8:30 o’clock Monday morning. Mr. Rosser came into police headquarters.

Q. What happened at Frank’s house before he went to police headquarters?—A. Mr. Hazlett went to Frank’s house and told him we wanted him to go to police station with us to discuss the case. It was about 7:30 o’clock.

Q. What time did you go to the police station?—A. We got to the station some time after 8 o’clock and soon Mr. Rosser and Mr. Herbert Haas came down.

Q. What did Mr. Haas have to say?—A. He wanted officers to go out and search Frank’s house.

Q. Had Frank been arrested?—A. No.

Q. What time did this take pla[c]e?—A. A little after 11 o’clock.

Q. Who did Rosser confer with when he went down at 8:30 o’clock on that Monday?—A. He conferred with Mr. Frank.

Q. Do you know anything about a conference between Newt Lee and Frank Tuesday night?—A. Yes, I suggested to Mr. Frank that he have a talk with Lee. They were alone in a room about ten minutes.

Q. Did you hear what they said?—A. No.

Q. What did Frank say about the conference?—A. Mr. Frank said Lee stuck to his story that he didn’t know anything about the crime.

Frank Seemed to Suspect Gannt.

Q. Did he say he tried to get anything out of Lee?—A. He said that Lee was the only one there and ought to know something about it.

Q. Did he say he suspected Lee?—A. He seemed to su[s]pect Gantt. He said he had discharged Gannt and had seen him at the pencil factory about 6 o’clock Saturday afternoon.

Q. Was Gantt arrested?—A. Yes.

Q. Was it after this conversation?—A. No, before.

Q. When did Frank first mention Gantt?—A. Sunday morning.

Q. Was that before Gantt’s arrest?—A. Yes.

Q. Were other suspects arrested?—A. Jim Conley.

Q. After you and Hazlett arrested Frank did you talk to him?—A. Yes.

Answer is Ruled Out.

Q. What was his appearance?—A. He was nervous, just as any man would be who was arrested.

“Your honor,” said Dorsey, “I move that that be ruled out as a gratuitous opinion. The jury is just as capable of judging whether he acted as any man would have acted or not.”

Attorney Rosser objected.

Judge Roan first said he would not strike the statement, but finally on the statement of Dorsey that he would withdraw the question, he said he would rule out the answer.

“I will put the question in a different way,” said Dorsey, “I will knock it down and set it up again.”

Q. What did Frank do Tuesday to make you think he was nervous?—A. He had nothing to say. He wouldn’t answer questions, while before that he appeared affable and in a good humor.

Here Mr. Rosser took up the cross-examination.

Q. You know that when Mr. Frank was at the station house on Monday he would not leave without consent?—A. No, I came down to the station house with Mr. Frank and I had not arrested him.

Q. Didn’t you swear he was released when he was allowed to leave the station?—A. Yes, but I retract that.

Q. A word put in just as a joke, just swore to a lie?

Black remained silent.

Q. Don’t you know, Brother Black, that I didn’t reach the station house until between 10 and 11 o’clock?—A. No, I think you came there between 8 and 8:30 o’clock.

Q. Didn’t you swear that I came there between 8 and 8:30 o’clock?—A. No. I swore that I got there between 8 and 8:30 o’clock and I thought you did.

Q. Don’t you remember that I came up and had to be introduced to Mr. Frank—that I didn’t know him?—A. No, I didn’t know that you didn’t know him.

Q. Don’t you remember that he told me he wanted a statement and I told him to give it without having a conference with him?—A. Yes.

Rosser Exerts Himself.

Q. Didn’t Chief Lanford order him into his office in the same tone he would talk to a negro?—A. No, I didn’t hear Chief Lanford talk in such a way. You wouldn’t let him go in without being with him.

Q. Didn’t I say I didn’t want him to give a statement without a third party being present so that it could not be stated he said something he didn’t say?—A. You wanted to be there when he made any statement.

Mr. Rosser was particularly vigorous in his tone of questioning. It was evident he was exerting himself more now than at any time since the trial began.

“Now,” he remarked aside, “we’ll go back and take up the story.”

Detective Fails to Remember.

Q. You or Lanford, one, told me that you didn’t want me in there?—A. I don’t remember.

Q. I told you that I was going in to hear what he said for fear you would say he said something he didn’t say?—A. I don’t recall it.

Q. When you released him he was not arrested until 11 o’clock, was he?—A. Yes.

Q. You were at the coroner’s inquest?—A. Yes.

Q. Frank answered all the questions freely?—A. Yes.

Q. You think you had one conversation with Mr. Frank before that Sunday morning?—A. Yes.

Q. Do you recall who was with you?—A. No, I don’t.

[This section is from the evening edition of Atlanta Georgian.]

Attracted by the report that the State intended to introduce its most important witnesses during the day, a larger crowd than that which clamored for admission on the first two days of the trial besieged the courthouse Wednesday morning as the time for the resumption of the Frank trial approached.

That sensation is to be sprung by the defense by the production of the mysteriously missing ribbon and flowers from the hat of the murdered girl was repeatedly indicated by Attorney Rosser’s line of questioning Tuesday and the afternoon before.

Beginning with Mrs. J. W. Coleman, mother of Mary Phagan, the attorney for Frank interrogated every witness who saw the girl alive or dead that day in regard to the ribbon and flowers.

Mrs. Coleman said that the ribbon and flowers were on the hat when Mary left home. Newt Lee said that he had seen no sign of the missing trimmings. The testimony of Sergeant L. S. Dobbs was the same. Detective Starnes, when he was turned over for the cross-examination, made the same admission.

It is believed that Rosser will produce the ribbon and will attempt to establish that it was found in a place throwing suspicion upon the negro Conley.

Frank was brought to the courthouse at about 8 o’clock Wednesday morning. There was no change in his demeanor or physical appearance. If the trial has been any strain upon him he does not display the effects. He was dressed in the dark mohair suit he wore Tuesday. He greeted his friends cheerily and spoke confidently of acquittal.

The jurors, sleeping in three rooms at the Kimball House, spent a restless night. They appeared rather fagged when they were brought into the courtroom at 9 o’clock.

First Witnesses Unimportant.

Attorneys for the State have announced that the witnesses called Monday and Tuesday were only for the purpose of starting the presentation of evidence against Leo Frank right from the opening incidents of the day that the murder was committed, and that they were important only in so far as they assisted in making a continuous chain of evidence, and as they made here and there statements which might be interpreted as damaging to the accused.

Working on the foundation laid by Tuesday’s testimony, Solicitor Dorsey was understood to be prepared Wednesday and Thursday to introduce witnesses who would swear that the red stains found in two places on the second floor were splotches of blood and not aniline or any other coloring stain; also that the bloody fingerprints on the rear door of the basement were the finger-prints of Leo M. Frank.

City Detective J. N. Starnes just before he left the stand Tuesday night identified pieces of wood as pieces he had chipped from the rear door of the factory. There were finger-prints easily distinguishable upon them. A finger-print expert was in the employ of Solicitor Dorsey for some time during the investigation of the murder mystery and was named among the State’s witnesses.

The red-stained chips from the factory floor were sent to Dr. Claude E. Smith, city bacteriologist, for analysis. Dr. Smith also is one of the State’s witnesses and was expected to be called Wednesday or during Thursday forenoon session.

Writing Pad Evidence?

It was understood when the trial opened Wednesday morning that Detective Starnes would be recalled to the stand by the Solicitor to tell of finding on a shelf just outside Frank’s office writing pads of paper similar to that on which the notes found by Mary Phagan’s body were written.

If the Solicitor did not alter his plans meantime, J. M. Gantt, discharged factory employee, was to be the next witness on the stand. Gantt told at the Coroner’s inquest that Frank appeared nervous and apprehensive when he (Gantt) went to the factory at 6 o’clock Saturday night to get some shoes he had left in the building.

Starnes was on the stand practically all of Tuesday afternoon. While the direct examination was in progress the detective told of his part in scouring the pencil factory for evidence.

One of his statements on which the State is relying to establish that Frank acted and talked in an incriminating manner the morning the body was found consisted in his testimony in regard to a telephone conversation which he said he had with the factory superintendent that morning.

Starnes, under the examination of Dorsey, said that he had been very guarded when he called up Frank that morning and had merely said that he desired Frank’s presence at the factory. He denied that he had mentioned the fact that a girl had been killed.

Claim Frank Knew.

It is the purpose of the State to seek to establish that Frank, without being told of what had happened, had made remarks to the officers when they came for him which indicated he was not unaware that a girl had been murdered in his factory.

The main points of Starnes’ testimony were:

That he had discovered stains resembling blood in two places on the second floor of the factory.

That Frank made a strange remark to Foreman M. B. Darley that he “had more than one suit of clothes,” referring to the fact that he had on a different suit than the one he wore the day before.

That Lee appeared composed when questioned Sunday by the detectives.

That he witnessed the new night watchman in the pencil factory make a complete punch of the time clock covering a period of twelve hours in five minutes.

Under Rosser’s cross-examination Starnes admitted that it was practically impossible for him to remember that exact words he used in certain parts of his testimony at the Coroner’s inquest. This admission was obtained by Rosser to show that Starnes’ memory in respect to the telephone conversation with Frank could not be regarded as any more reliable. Rosser brought out that Starnes failed to mention at the Coroner’s inquest either the matter of the telephone conversation or of the alleged conversation he held with Frank the morning of the murder.

Starnes also admitted that the finger-print chips which were shown him by Solicitor Dorsey might not be the same chips he had taken from the rear door of the basement, as the chips had been out of his possession part of the time during the investigation.

Another in our series of new transcriptions of contemporary articles on the Leo Frank case.

Atlanta Georgian
July 29^th, 1913

STATE TRIES TO SHOW GIRL WAS STRANGLED ON THE SECOND FLOOR

Here are Tuesday’s important developments in the trial of Leo M. Frank on the charge of murdering Mary Phagan in the National Pencil Factory, Saturday, April 26.

Newt Lee, negro night watchman at the pencil factory, leaves the stand after four hours and forty minutes of examination and cross-examination with the essential points of his story unshaken.

Efforts to discredit the negro’s story result only in showing several discrepancies in the story he told before the Coroner’s jury and his testimony on the stand at the trial.

All attempts to confuse Lee by telling him that the stenographer’s report of the inquest has him making slightly different statements met invariably with his declaration that “they didn’t get it right down there.”

L. S. Dobbs, police sergeant, testifies to the finding of the body of the Phagan girl and says that Lee had a ready interpretation of the two notes when they were found by the dead body.

City Detective Starnes testifies to finding bloodstains on second floor and says Frank was nervous the day after the crime. He says he found what he took to be fingerprints of blood on a door in the basement.

Starnes is closely cross-questioned by the defense in an effort to show the spots he thought blood might have been aniline dye. In a lawyers’ clash over certain questions Solicitor Dorsey is told to “sit down” by the judge.

City Detective J. M. Starnes told late Tuesday afternoon at the trial of Leo Frank of the finding of a number of red splotches resembling blood in the northeast corner of the women’s dressing room in the National Pencil Factory, testimony on which the prosecution relies to support its theory that Mary Phagan was murdered on the second floor of the building.

Starnes said that the principal part of the largest splotch was about as big as the palm of his hand.

He also testified that he found blood about 40 or 50 feet from the dressing room toward the front of the building, and that he discovered what he took to be finger-prints of blood on the door of the basement. The fingerprints, he said, he chipped off and now has the chips of wood in his office.

Starnes asserted that there were indications that a white substance had been used with the evident purpose of eradicating what appeared to be bloodstains. The detective described Frank as nervous when he was brought down to the factory the morning after the crime.

Tells of Clock Tests.

He said in reply to Solicitor Dorsey’s questions that he had witnessed the new night watchman make a complete series of punches in the time clock for an entire twelve hours within a space of five minutes, in an effort to support the theory the State is expected to advance that Frank doctored the time tape submitted to the police department which seemed to show that the neight [sic] watchman, Lee, had made three skips.

Attorneys Go After Lee.

Newt Lee, night watchman at the National Pencil Factory, was harassed and assailed by counsel for Frank in a vain effort to win from him admissions a[i]ding the theory that he was otherwise involved in the crime than as the man who found the body. Lee was on the stand from 9 o’clock to 11:40 a. m.

However, through Lee and Sergeant L. S. Dobbs, one of the officers called to the factory the morning of Sunday, April 27, the attorneys for Frank laid the groundwork for the elaboration of their theory that Jim Conley was the murderer of Mary Phagan and that Lee assisted in writing the notes that were found by her body.

From Sergeant Dobbs, Luther Rosser, chief of counsel for Frank, obtained these admissions:

Points in Dobbs’ Story.

That Lee, ignorant and illiterate, was able to decipher and explain in a flash the mysterious notes over which the officers had puzzled for several minutes.

That Lee spoke up and said, referring to the words “night witch” in one of the notes: “That’s me, boss; that means the night watchman.”

That the condition of Mary Phagan’s begrimed and bruised face gave the indication that the girl had been dragged along the dirt floor of the factory basement, although Jim Conley, in his story of his part in the crime, declared that he had carried the body to the trash heap in the rear of the basement.

That Dobbs, with the aid of an electric flashlight, was unable to tell whether the slain girl was white or colored until he had pulled down her stocking, although Lee had testified to being able to tell that the girl was white by the dim rays from his smoky lantern while he was standing at a distance of five or six feet.

Lee’s Story at Variance.

That Dobbs at the Coroner’s inquest testified that he had had a Mr. Williams lie down in the place where Mary Phagan’s body was found and, taking the position Lee said he was in when he first saw the body, discovered that, as a matter of fact, the body could hardly be seen from this point unless one was looking especially for it.

Lee testified, under the cross-examination of Attorney Rosser:

That the time he found the body was the first time he had gone farther than 25 feet from the ladder in the front of the basement that night.

That he knew it was a white woman, although he did not approach nearer the body than five or six feet, and had no light except the dirty lantern.

That he recalled that the officers, with a flashlight, were unable to identify it as white or colored for some time.

That he did not say, “That’s me, boss,” referring to one of the notes, but something to the effect that “They are trying to put this on me.”

After a short battle of words, between Rosser and Solicitor Dorsey, Reuben R. Arnold, associated with Rosser, asked for the first time during the day to be heard, and plainly […]

DEFENSE FAILS TO OBTAIN CRIMINATIONS FROM LEE

[…] indicated that it was the intention to prove that Newt Lee was concerned in the writing of the two mysterious notes found by the mutilated body of Mary Phagan.

Jurors Sent From Room.

The Solicitor objected strongly to arguing before the jury the admissibility of this testimony of Lee’s, and the jurors were excused while Arnold outlined the purpose of the defense.

“We expect to show that two notes were found by the body of Mary Phagan,” said Arnold.

Solicitor Dorsey had just given Mr. Arnold the two notes found in the basement and Judge Roan ordered the jury to retire. Mr. Arnold said:

“The defense expects to show that the two notes found in the basement of the National Pencil Factory were very obscure notes and the police were trying to read them in the presence of Lee.

“They read this one: ‘He said he would love me, laid down, played like the night-witch did it, but that long tall black negro did it by his-self.”

Lee’s Explanation.

[Several words illegible] Lee said, “That night-witch means me,” said Arnold. “It showed familiarity with the notes. This negro who is so dull that Mr. Rosser has to repeat his questions now and again interpreted thi [sic] mysterious note in a second and half.”

Here Dorsey interrupted.

“Since Attorney Arnold has the note itself, there is no reason to ask what somebody else said about it.”

Assistant Prosecutor Hooper here joined in:

“Unless it was intended to try to connect Lee with the crime, what someone else said about the notes to Lee is wholly inadmissible. The charge must be made against him.”

“We don’t have to photograph a criminal. We have got to begin somewhere,” retorted Rosser.

Judge Roan sustained the defense, saying that it might produce evidence to show anxiety on the part of the negro, or a lucid interpretation of the notes.

“Suspicion on Lee,” Says Rosser.

“We expect to show that the notes were obscure and doubtful in meaning. We expect to show that the officers were endeavoring to read them. But [several words illegible] meaning. In one of them we will show that the wording was something like this, so far as I can decipher it: ‘He said he would love me, laid down, played like the night-witch did it but that long, tall, black negro did it by his-self.’

“We want to show,” continued Arnold, “that Lee spoke up and said, ‘That’s me, boss. That means night watchman.’

“Isn’t it strange that a negro so ignorant and dull that Mr. Rosser had to ask him a question ten times over could in a flash interpret this illegible scrawl?”

Rosser supplemented Arnold’s argument by remarking that he regarded Lee’s alleged remarks as highly suspicious, and that he considered he had the right to question a witness with a view of showing that a person or persons other than the defendant had a part in the crime.

Judge Roan ruled with the defense, and the jury was returned. The judge declared:

“The attorneys for Frank are privileged to bring out evidence showing anxiety or fear on the part of the negro.”

Lee Makes Denial.

Lee denied when questioned that he had said, “That’s me, Boss; that means night watchman.” He testified that he told the officers that someone was trying to put the crime on him.

Sergeant L. H. Dobbs, one of the officers who visited the factory after Lee called the police station, testified before the Coroner’s jury in regard to Lee’s ready explanation of the notes.

Rosser ended his cross-examination [several words illegible] the negro had been on the grill two hours Monday afternoon and nearly as long Tuesday.

The efforts to discredit Lee’s story began the moment Rosser got him on the stand. He sought first to show that it was a very peculiar circumstance that Lee went clear to the rear of the factory basement, where he found the girl’s body, when all through the earlier part of the night he had gone only a short distance from the foot of the ladder in the front of the basement.

Calls Lee’s Excuse Flimsy.

“Every time you went down into the basement you went only about 25 feet from the ladder to see if there was fire in the dust pan,” said Rosser, repeating Lee’s testimony, “and yet at this time, when you say you found the girl’s body, you assert that it was necessary to go clear to the rear to ascertain the same fact?”

Lee replied that he had gone to the rear of the basement for another purpose and Rosser attempted to show that this was only a flimsy excuse.

By his line of questioning Rosser endeavored to ridicule the idea that Lee could have identified Mary Phagan as a white girl by the dim light of his dirty lantern when, as he testified, he got no nearer than five or six feet to the body, and when the officers with electric searchlights were not able to determine whether the girl was white or a negro because of the grime and cinders on her body, until they had pulled down her stocking.

Session Full of Clashes.

The session was full of spirited [several words illegible] It was a favorable forenoon for the defense, Rosser almost invariably being permitted to continue the line of questioning which he was pursuing.

Rosser, while he succeeded in showing up discrepancies in Lee’s present story with that before the Coroner’s jury, was unable to force the negro to any admissions incriminating in themselves.

Dorsey questioned Lee in redirect examination and Rosser in recross-examination and Rosser in recross-examination. Lee left the stand at 11:40 o’clock, after a total of four hours and forty minutes’ grilling.

Sergeant L. S. Dobbs followed Lee on the stand. He told the story of finding the body and identified the Phagan girl’s clothes and the cord that was used to strangle her.

Frank, his face a mask, was brought into the courtroom just before the court was called to order by Deputy Sheriff Plennie Miner.

After taking a cool survey of the courtroom, the factory superintendent conversed a moment with is counsel and then centered his attention on the night watchman. Frank took no notes of the negro’s testimony, but he evidently was making a mental record of every word of it.

What he thought of the negro’s statements could not be guessed from his features. Whether the negro was giving testimony which might be construed as favorable or as most damaging, there was not the shade of a change in the expression of the young factory superintendent.

He only took his eyes from the witness to speak a word to his wife or to answer an occasional question [several words illegible] sel. He was brought to the courthouse from the Tower at 7:45 by Sheriff Mangum and Deputy Sheriff Miner. He was dressed in a blue mohair suit with a striped effect, and wore a fancy gray tie.

Eats Light Breakfast.

His breakfast was brought to him at the courthouse by a relative, and consisted only of two slices of toast and a bottle of milk.

“I am well pleased with the progress of the trial to this point, he said in his conversation with Essenbach. “Nothing has been developed which has not already been well known to the public and attorneys and which will be explained in the light of the defense’s case.

“I am feeling well and confident. Nothing has taken place to disturb me in the least. I hope that the trial will move as rapidly toward its conclusion as the first day’s session gave promise. I have nothing to conceal and nothing to fear.”

Grilling of Lee Resumed.

The cross-examination of Lee was resumed as soon as court opened.

Q. How far were you from the body when you first saw it?—A. About ten feet.

Q. Could you see to either side?—A. No. I stood up, picked up lantern and went toward the dust pan.

Q. Why didn’t you go to the pan earlier in the night?—A. I just happened to take a notion to go this time.

Q. When you were in closet, which way did you look?—A. Toward the wail.

Q. What do you call the right?—A. This (indicating right hand).

Q. Well, the dust plan was on your right, wasn’t it?—A. Not exactly.

[Several words illegible] had to walk quite a distance to see whether there was any fire in the dust pan, didn’t you?—A. Yes, sir.

Q. How far did you walk?—A. A little piece below the light.

Q. Tell me exactly how far it was?—A. About as far as that man there. (About 25 feet.)

Q. You only went to the dustpan once that night?—A. Mr. Frank told me not to go near it with the lantern.

Shows How He Held Light.

Q. How close did you go to the body?—A. That wall there.

Q. How far is that?—A. About six feet.

Q. How did you hold the lantern to see it?—A. Like this. (Holding hand over head.)

Q. What did you see first?—A. The feet.

Q. How far was the body from the closet?—A. I don’t know.

Q. Was it two feet, ten feet or twenty feet?—A. I don’t know.

Q. Was it fifty feet, forty feet or thirty feet?—A. Somewhere about thirty feet, maybe not that much.

Q. How long did you look at the body?—A. I looked to see whether it was a natural body.

Q. You didn’t linger?

At this question Lee arose and pointed his finger at Rosser. “Just as soon as I saw what it was I want to tell you I lit a rag.”

Saw It Was White Girl.

Q. You saw it was a white woman?—A. There were one or two white spots on the face and her hair was frizzled.

Q. How long did it take the police to find she was a white girl?—A. I don’t know; they arrested me.

Q. What did they say?—A. One of them said this girl has been dead three or four days.

Q. When you came up did you go [several words illegible] remember.

Q. Did you notice whether the door […]

FRANK LAWYERS FAIL TO INCRIMINATE LEE

[…] was open when you went back?—A. No, sir.

Q. Did you tell the police it was a white girl or white woman?—A. I think I told them it was a white woman.

Q. She was lying on her back, with her face up?—A. Yes, sir; she was lying on her side with her face up, with blood on her head.

Q. Which side was the blood on?—A. It was on the right side. It was dry.

Q. Are you sure it was the right side?—A. No, sir; her left side was turned up to me.

Grill Grows More Severe.

Q. You swear she was on her back?—A. Yes, sir; her face was turned up kind of to one side.

Q. When you sent up to the office the first time, did Mr. Frank close his office door?—A. I don’t know. I couldn’t see his office.

Q. I mean the outside door?—A. It was open.

Mr. Rosser then read Lee’s testimony about the time slip before the Coroner’s jury.

Q. You helped him put the page in, didn’t you, Newt? This is right, isn’t it?—A. Read that again.

Mr. Rosser read it.

A. No, sir; you got me wrong. He didn’t come out of his office.

Q. You said yesterday that Mr. Frank jumped back when he met Mr. Gantt?—A. Yes, sir.

Dorsey Objects to Methods.

Mr. Rosser read Lee’s testimony before the Coroner’s jury, which said nothing about Frank jumping back.

Lee—“Well, they got that wrong.”

Q. That was a bad stenographer down there, wasn’t he?

Solicitor Dorsey here objected to this method of questioning the witness. He declared the negro should first be questioned and then an effort to impeach him made.

To this Mr. Rosser replied: “Of course, this gentleman on account of his age is entitled to lecture me!”

“I am addressing his honor,” retorted Dorsey.

“I have stated my objection,” said Dorsey.

“He misunderstood what I am trying to show,” said Rosser.

Court Sustains Dorsey.

“This witness can’t tell what his opinion is,” said Judge Roan, for the first time speaking. “He can tell what he swore to before the Coroner’s jury.”

Following this ruling the cross-examination was resumed.

Rosser read from the stenographic report of the Coroner’s inquest:

“Mr. Frank jumped when he met Mr. Gantt and I taken it this way.”

Here Solicitor Dorsey interrupted:

“I object to what he taken,” the Solicitor said.

Judge Roan ruled that no opinion of a witness was admissible.

Assistant Prosecutor Hooper then asked that Mr. Rosser state what Coroner’s inquest he was referring to.

Attorneys in Clash.

“I am always glad to accommodate these men whenever I can,” said Rosser.

“You have got to accommodate me,” retorted Hooper.

“No I haven’t. The man never was born whom I have got to accommodate.”

Judge Roan ruled that Mr. Rosser must state what Coroner’s jury he was referring to, as there were two, one in April and one in May.

Rosser resumed his questioning.

Q. I asked you if you were before the Coroner’s jury at the police station?—A. Yes, sir.

State’s Objection Overruled.

Q. Did you the first time say anything about Mr. Frank jumping back when he met Mr. Gantt?

Dorsey again objected, and was overruled.

A. Yes, sir; I did.

Rosser read Lee’s testimony before the Coroner’s first hearing, saying he was going to ask him if that was all he said. This testimony was to the effect that Frank looked as though he was frightened. It did not mention, however, that Frank jumped back when he met Gantt.

Q. Is that all you said?—A. No, sir; that wasn’t all I said.

Negro Answers Warily.

Q. Newt, I ask you if you didn’t leap right out of there and run and call the police when you saw that body?—A. Just as soon as I saw what it was.

Q. Didn’t you say this before the Coroner’s jury: “I thought some devilish boys had put something there to fool me. I got close enough to see it was a body and leaped right away?”—A. No, sir; I’ll tell you what I said.

Mr. Rosser interrupted Lee.

Q. Mr. Frank told you if anything serious happened, to call the police, and if anything trivial, to call him?—A. Yes.

Q. When Frank told you to go off and have a good time, you lit right out, didn’t you?—A. No, sir.

Q. Didn’t you say that after two or three minutes you lit out?—A. Not exactly that way.

Says He Doesn’t Recall.

Q. You said yesterday that when Frank put on the lock tape that Saturday it took twice as long as it did on the other times you saw him do it. When they asked you how long it took him to put it in before, did you not tell them you did not pay much attention to it?—A. I don’t recall.

Q. Why didn’t you tell the Coroner it took twice as long the last time as it did before?—A. I did tell them it took longer.

Q. Who asked you?—A. He looked like a blind man.

Q. Then all this record here is wrong?—A. I can’t help about those records.

Q. You never told it until yesterday?—A. Yes; I told the Coroner it took him longer.

Q. If you didn’t pay attention to him the first time, how did you know it took longer the second time?—A. I held the lever for him.

Q. You couldn’t say whether it took him a minute the first time?—A. Yes, it took over a minute.

Questioned About Notes.

Q. You could not say whether it took under a minute or over a minute?—A. No.

Q. Who did you live with?—A. No one.

Q. Who lived with you?—A. A woman. She just stayed there and cooked for me.

Q. You and her lived together?—A. No, she just cooked for me.

Q. Did you pay the rent for the last one?—A. Yes.

Q. How about the first one?—A. I just paid board.

Q. Were you down in the basement when the police found some notes?—A. They said something about a book.

Q. They read you something about the night watch doing it?

Dorsey here objected to anything anybody else said.

Rosser replied that his object was to get to the truth and show what Newt Lee did at the time, indicating a ready interpretation of the notes.

Mr. Arnold then addressed the court.

He began an argument and Solicitor Dorsey insisted that the jury be withdrawn.

“Of course, after he has discussed the case, he wants the jury withdrawn at our statements,” said Mr. Rosser.

“I understood Mr. Rosser to say he would not introduce the contents, and I understand this ruling excludes the contents of one of the notes?” asked Dorsey.

“No, I didn’t say we were not going to present the contents of the notes. I am going to introduce what I please,” answered Rosser.

Judge Roan again sustained the defense and ordered the jury brought back. Attorney Rosser then resumed his cross-examination.

Q. When you were in the basement, didn’t one of the policemen read a note which said something about a long, tall, black negro?

“I object,” said Dorsey. “I understood his honor to rule that the attorneys for the defense could not go into the contents of the notes.”

“Are we going on with this argument before the jury, after we just had them sent out?” asked Rosser.

“Let the question be put,” said Judge Roan.

Lee Denies Saying “That’s Me.”

Q. When he said “the night witch,” didn’t you say “Boss, that’s me?”—A. No, sir; I said, “Boss, it looks like they are trying to lay it on me.”

Q. No, I want yest or no from this—“The tall, black, long negro?”

Here Dorsey interrupted with an objection.

“Now where did Lee swear that.” […]

WATCHMAN STICKS TO HIS TALE OF FINDING OF BODY

[…] he asked, “A section of the Code says that you can’t question a man like that unless you present some certain evidence of the statement having been made or written.”

At this, Attorney Rosser sat down and Dorsey began questioning Lee on the redirect examination.

Q. You said something about somebody trying to put it off on you?—A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you know Jim Conley? A. I never saw him until that time last week.

Q. Have you talked to anybody about this?—A. Yes.

Q. Did you ever talk to this man (indicating Arnold)?—A. Yes, he was over to the jail after you were.

Lee Quizzed on Diagram.

Q. The first time Frank put that tape on the clock, did he say anything?—A. No.

Q. Did he say anything the second time?—A. He made a remark about its taking longer.

Q. What was the reason he changed the tape?—A. It had been used.

Q. Was it as dark in the basement at night as it was in the daytime?—A. Mighty near.

Solicitor Dorsey started over the diagram drawn by Bert Green, Georgian staff artist, of the National Pencil Factory, and proceeded to ask Lee a question and pointed at the diagram.

“I object to that picture,” said Attorney Arnold. “It is nothing but Mr. Dorsey’s theory of the case. He’s got all kinds of marks here.”

“He’s not asking about anything but the physical appearance of the building,” replied Judge Roan.

Solicitor Dorsey then had Newt Lee point out the various parts of the building shown on the diagram; Dorsey used as a pointer Mary Phagan’s parasol.

Q. Newt, say whether the body of Mary Phagan was lying the same way when you saw it with the officers as when you first saw it.—A. I don’t know, officers were all around it, and I couldn’t see very good.

Lawyers Clash Again.

Mr. Rosser took a stand directly behind Mr. Dorsey and objected to Dorsey leading the witness.

“Well, this negro is not as well educated as some of these lawyers,” said Mr. Dorsey. “It takes a little patience to get him to understand.”

“What lawyers are you referring to?” asked Mr. Rosser. “Do you mean yourself?”

“Of course, myself,” answered Mr. Dorsey.

Q. Was the toilet west or east from the boiler in the basement?—A. West.

Q. Was the body west or east?—A. The body was kinder west.

Q. Could you see Frank from that desk up stairs?—A. No, sir.

Q. Mr. Rosser asked you how far it was from the steps leading up to the second floor to Mr. Frank’s office. How far was it?—A. About as far as from here to that wall across the room.

Called Only Police.

Q. Did you call anybody on the phone that night but the police?—A. No, sir.

Q. Did you call Mr. Haas?—A. No, sir.

Q. Were the shutters on the north side of the second floor of that building closed on Saturday, April 26?—A. Yes, sir; they were closed.

Q. Were there apartments back there on the third floor?—A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who were they for?—A. White people.

Q. Did white people use the closet in the basement?—A. No, sir.

Q. Who told you to use it?—A. Mr. Frank took me down there and told me to use it.

Q. What did he call it?—A. He called it a toilet.

Q. At night it is darker in the rear of that basement than it is outside?—A. You can’t see inside there at all back where the body was found.

Tries to Discount Diagram.

This ended the redirect examination, and Mr. Rosser began the recross-examination. He took up the questioning in an effort to prove that Lee did not understand the diagram of the pencil factory.

“What is this?” he asked, pointing to some blue coloring representing the blank wall.

“I don’t know, sir,” the negro replied.

Q. It looks like a mill pond, doesn’t it?—A. I don’t know just what it is meant for.

Q. The policemen and detectives talked to you all the time, didn’t they? They fired a pistol beside you; they cussed you and they praised you, didn’t they?—A. No sir; they didn’t praise me none.

Q. My friend, John Black, and those fellows talked to you day and night, didn’t they?—A. Well, just let me tell you, I couldn’t sleep even for two nights after I was put in jail. They just questioned me all the time, policemen and everybody.

Q. Is there any other way to get out of the basement except by the ladder?—A. Only the back door.

Q. Are there not some steps between the boiler and the back door up to the first floor?—A. If there are any there I don’t know it.

Black Talked to Him More.

Solicitor Dorsey at this point took up the examination.

Q. Did Frank talk to you in jail?—Yes, sir.

Q. Who talked longer to you, Frank or John Black, the detective? Rosser objected, saying the Solicitor had gone over the interview between Frank and Lee and no one had referred to it since.

“We want to know if repetition is going to be allowed,” Rosser asked Judge Roan. “It is simply to repeat. If we start a repeating contest we will be here forever.”

Judge Roan overruled the objection.

Lee replied: “Detective Black talked to me the most.

Q. Who talked to you longer, the detectives or Mr. Arnold, when he came to see you the other day?—A. Mr. Arnold.

Newt Lee was then called off the stand, after having been questioned for 4 hours and 15 minutes.

Sergeant Dobbs Testifies.

Dorsey said, “Bring in L. S. Dobbs, sergeant of police.”

Q. Where were you at about 3 o’clock April 27?—A. At the station house.

Q. Did anything unusual happen?—A. At about 3:25 a call came to go to the pencil factory. When we got there the door was locked. Later a negro came and let us in. He said there was a woman murdered in the basement. The negro led the way down, and about fifteen feet back we found the body. She was lying with her face down. We couldn’t tell whether she was white or black except that her hair was light. I told someone to turn her over. A cord was around her neck and sunk in her flesh. There was also a piece of cloth. I began to look around and found a couple of notes. One of them read——”

Mr. Dorsey interrupted. “Never mind about the notes,” he said.

Identifies Cord and Cloth.

Q. I will first get you to identify this cord (taking the death loop from a suitcase).—A. That looks like it.

Q. And this (exhibiting a torn piece of cloth)?—A. It is.

Q. Was there much blood?—A. Very little.

Q. Was the hair bloody?—A. Very little; I had to almost reach the skin to feel blood.

Q. Was it moist?—A. Dry.

Q. Are these the notes you found near the body? (Exhibiting notes.)—A. Yes.

Q. And this pad?—A. Yes.

Q. How were they lying?—A. Near the head.

Q. Were they close together?—A. Yes.

Q. What did you do with Lee?—A. Took him to the station.

Q. What was his bearing?—A. Cool.

Q. Mr. Dobbs, look at this (pointing to diagram of factory); point where the body was found?—A. Right here. (Indicating spot.)

Rosser—“I object to that picture until the witness says it is a fair representation of the building.”

Judge Roan—“I sustain the objection.”

Dorsey—“Is it a fair representation of the building?”

A. It is.

Dorsey: “That’s All.”

Rosser After Details.

Rosser took up the cross-examination.

Q. The negro told you she was a white woman?—A. Yes.

Q. You had to look very closely to find out?—A. Yes.

Q. What kind of light did you have?—A. We lit some gas jets and had lanterns.

Q. You found the notes under the sawdust?—A. Yes.

Q. You were not able to see them until you raked in the sawdust?—A. No, sir.

Q. Was the note attached to the pad?—A. No.

Q. How far from the child’s head was the first note?—A. Not over eight or ten inches.

Q. What note did you find first. A. The white one.

Q. Did you find much trash in the building?—A. Yes.

Q. Did you find other notes?—A. No.

Q. Did you search?—A. Yes, we were looking for the shoe, you know.

Q. Where was the shoe found?—A. Some one else found them.

Q. What was the condition of the child’s face?—A. You mean about dust?

Q. No; was there any indication that she was dragged?—A. I thought there was.

Q. Lee did become excited become he left the factory?—A. Yes.

Q. From the place where Lee stood, could he have seen the body?—A. Yes; part of it.

Q. Didn’t you make any experiment in the day time to see whether Lee could see the body?—A. Yes.

Q. Could you?—A. Yes, sir; the feet and part of the legs.

Q. I asked you if you said the evidences of dragging did not begin immediately in front of the elevator?—A. No, I said it appeared to me to begin immediately in front of the elevator.

Q. As a matter of fact, you didn’t find the hat and the shoes close together?—A. The hat and the shoes were on the garbage pile.

Q. The floor was rough and one being dragged over it would be scarred up?—A. Yes.

Q. Captain, you are mistaken about the wound being on the right side of the head, aren’t you?—A. I won’t be positive. It was near the rear of the head.

Q. Was the blood wet or dry?—A. Dry.

Q. This little trail which you […]

FRANK LISTENS INTENTLY TO GRILLING OF NEWT LEE

[…] thought showed where the body had been dragged extended to the body?—A. Yes, sir.

Q. You took hold of the hands and worked them?—A. Yes, but she was stiff. Her joints worked a little.

Door Staples Pulled.

Q. What was the condition of the back door?—A. The staple had been pulled, but the lock was still locked.

Q. Was the door open or shut?—A. It was a slide door and shut.

Q. Was it a bar door?—A. Yes. The bar was down.

Q. Did it appear to be a recent withdrawal of the staple?—A. Yes.

Q. Did you either read or quote to the negro Lee a statement about who had committed the crime, and when you said “night” Lee interrupted with a statement that he was the one referred to?—A. Yes, before I read the word “witch” he said he was the one referred to.

Attorney Rosser here exhibited a cord and a cotton cloth which Sergeant Dobbs identified as having been found around Mary Phagan’s neck.

Q. Did you examine her underclothes?—A. Not very closely.

Court was then adjourned until 2 o’clock when the redirect examination of Dobbs was taken up by Solicitor Dorsey.

Dobbs Recalled to Stand.

It was 5 minutes to 2 o’clock when Judge Roan walked to the bench and called order. He asked Solicitor Dorsey if he cared to question the last witness, Sergeant L. S. Dobbs, further. Mr. Dorsey replied that he did. Sergeant Dobbs was then returned to the stand, and the redirect examination began.

Solicitor Dorsey directed the questioning for the State:

Q. To what undertaker did you turn Mary Phagan’s body over?—A. Bloomfield, I think.

Q. How far is it from the ladder to the spot where you found the body?—A. 150 feet.

Q. What was lying on the trash pile?—A. A hat and this pump (displaying one of Mary Phagan’s shoe)/

Q. What else?—A. Nothing.

Q. What about the hat trimming?—A. I never saw it.

Q. The hair ribbon?—A. We took it from her head.

Experimented to Solve Crime.

Q. Did you many any experiments at night in the factory in an effort to ascertain just how and who committed the crime?—A. Yes.

Q. Did you become convinced that Newt Lee could have seen the body from where he sat?

A. Attorney Rosser objected to this question and the objection was sustained.

Q. Could more than one person at a time have gone down the ladder to the basement?—A. No.

Q. Would it have been possible for anyone to have taken the body down the ladder with them?—A. No.

Q. Would it have been necessary for anyone taking or dropping a body down the ladder to have gone around the elevator shaft?—A. No.

Q. Could you tell whether the evidence you saw of dragging was caused from the feet of some person carrying a heavy burden or actually dragging it?—A. No, sir.

Q. How did the lock on the basement door? Was it pulled up or out? A. Out.

Q. Look at this lock and hasp. (Dorsey exhibited lock and hasp from back door of pencil factory). Were they the ones you found on the back door?—A. Yes.

Q. Was the body cold or warm? A. Cold.

Dorsey Concludes Queries.

Q. Was there any blood on the ground or sawdust where you found the girl?—A. No, sir.

This concluded Dorsey’s examination.

Rosser then took the witness on the re-cross-examination.

Q. You don’t know how this hasp wos [sic] taken?—A. No sir.

Q. Mr. Dobbs, is it not a fact that you know whether this hasp was taken from the outside of the inside?—A. Yes.

Mr. Dorsey then arose and put a question to the witness.

“Where was the elevator on the morning that you found the body of Mary Phagan?”

At the office floor,” replied Dobbs.

Q. Couldn’t you tell from her hair that she was white?—A. Yes, if you got close enough.

Mr. Rosser questioned the witness again.

“Didn’t you say you had to make a careful examination to tell that she was white?”—Yes.

This concluded Sergeant Dobbs’ testimony.

Starnes Put on Stand.

The next witness to be called to the stand was Detective J. M. Starnes, who has been one of the principal investigators of the case. Solicitor Dorsey questioned him for the prosecution.

Q. What time did you get to the pencil factory after this crime was reported?—A. Between 5 and 6 o’clock Sunday morning.

Q. What did you do?—A. I met Sergeant Dobbs and went into the basement.

Q. Can you identify this staple and lock?—A. I do not know.

Q. This looks like the staple and lock from the pencil factory’s back basement door, doesn’t it?—A. Yes.

Q. How did you find the staple, was it pulled up or out?—A. The staple was pulled out from the back door, the indication being that it was pulled straight out.

Q. Was there anything to show how it was removed?—A. There was an indentation in the wood and a piece of rusty pipe which fitted the indentation.

Q. How did this door open?—A. It slid South.

Frank Didn’t Ask Reason.

Q. If the staple was in and the door was open from the outside, what woul[d] have been the effect on the staple if the door had been opened from the outside?—A. The staple would have been badly bent.

The attorneys for the defense were sustained on an objection to a question by Dorsey to Starnes about a talk with Newt Lee.

Q. What did you do next?—A. I went to the police station and discussed the case with Chief Lanford and John Black.

Q. What next?—A. We asked Lee who the superintendent was and when he told us, we called Frang [sic] over the phone.

Q. How long did it take to get him?—A. Only a few minutes. A man answered the phone, said he was superintendent of the National Pencil Factory. I told him that it was very necessary for him to come to the pencil factory. He replied that he had not eaten his breakfast and that he did not want to come down town until after breakfast. I told him that it would be very necessary for him to come and that an automobile would be sent for him.

Q. Did you tell him what the trouble was?—A. He did not ask me and I did not tell him.

Q. How long was it before Frank reached the factory?—A. Only a few minutes.

Scores “Trial on Looks.”

Objections were made when Dorsey asked Detective Starnes as to Newt Lee’s conduct at the factory when Starnes first arrived there.

“This case should not be tried on looks,” said Attorney Arnold. “Every man looks guilty to an officer. That what he gets paid for.”

“The defense has attacked Lee and the prosecution wants to show his attitude to reveal that the attack is unfounded,” retorted Attorney Hooper for the prosecution.

“Suppose Lee was on trial for his life,” asked Attorney Rosser, “would any attitude be construed in his favor?”

Judge Roan overruled the objection, but said that he had not let down the bars.

“Lee appeared composed,” said Starnes.

Q. How did Frank appear?—A. He pulled off his coat and said to Mr. Darley: “You see I have got another suit.”

Q. Where did that conversation occur?—A. In Mr. Frank’s office.

Q. What else did he say?—A. I don’t remember anything else. I had charge of Lee.

Q. Did you have an opportunity to observe whether Frank was nervous?—A. He appeared nervous.

“Frank Looked Rather Trembling.”

Q. Tell what he did—A. He just appeared nervous. I didn’t know who he was at the time. He appeared rather trembling and uncomposed.

Q. What time was it that he had this appearance?—A. When they brought him in to the factory from home.

Q. Did you see any slips punched in that clock?—A. Yes.

Q. When?—A. About a week afterward.

Q. Tell the jury about it.—A. I went to the factory and the watchman named McKinzie punched the clock all the way around in about five minutes.

Q. Were you present when Frank said anything about Newt Lee’s record?—A. No.

Q. Did you ever see these cords before (displaying some cords)?—A. Yes. We took some from the girl’s body.

Q. Did you ever find any more?—A. Yes, on the second floor of the pencil factory.

Q. Were there knots in them?—A. Yes.

Q. Were the knots similar?—A. Yes.

Q. Did you find any anywhere else?—A. Yes, in the basement.

When Starnes started to identify similar cords, already identified by Sergeant Dobbs as having been found around Mary Phagan’s neck, Attorney Rosser objected on the ground that Starnes had not written the notations on them. The objection was sustained.

Q. Did you see anything in the dressing room Monday morning?—A. Yes, I saw a splotch that looked like blood and several smaller splotches that looked like blood.

Q. What did you find in the dressing room Monday?—A. I found several splotches and I chipped them up.

Q. What was the size of the largest spots?—A. One of them looked to be as large as my hand.

Q. Were they just splotches?—A. No, that was the principal part. It spattered for a foot and a half.

Q. Was there anything on the floor but blood?—A. Yes, it looked like it had been swept over with some white substance.

Q. Do you know what it was?—A. No. Some one told me what it was, but I have forgotten.

Q. Was the stuff on the floor blood?—A. Yes, I think so.

Q. You are sure that it was not aniline dye?—A. Yes, I experimented with the dye and it left a much brighter stain.

Q. Where else did you find blood?—A. About 50 feet up, going from the middle of the department towards the office, I found a nail with blood on it.

Q. What area did this blood spatter cover?—A. I don’t know, but not as much as in other places.

Q. Did you find any other spots that you thought to be blood?—A. I chipped off the back door two spots that I thought to be blood finger prints.

Rosser Calls Dorsey “Son.”

Q. How far is it from the folding door to the place where the blood spots were found?—A. Thirteen feet and about forty feet from where the nail was found.

Q. How long would it take to walk from Marietta street to the National Pencil Factory?—A. About three minutes.

Here Rosser interrupted and asked the witness:

“Did you ever time it?”

“No,” answered Starnes.

Dorsey protested vehemently.

“Will you stand out of the way, Mr. Rosser, in order that I may see the witness?” said Dorsey.

“That’s a good suggestion, son, kindly remind me of it,” retorted Rosser.

The objection was overruled.

Q. Were Frank’s remarks about his clothes made seriously or jokingly?—A. Well, he and Mr. Darley were having the conversation and the only part I heard was Frank’s remark about having another suit.

Q. What are these? asked Solicitor Dorsey, handing him something. A.—They look like the chips I took from the factory floor.

Q. Is there any difference in them now and when you chipped them up?—A. They are a little cleaner.

Q. What did you do with them?—A. Gave them to Chief Lanford.

Cord Presented as Evidence.

Q. Mr. Rosser asked you something about an agreement at the police station with Frank?—A. I don’t know anything more about it than from hearsay.

“Your Honor,” said Dorsey, “I want to tender as evidence a cord identified by Sergeant Dobbs as having been found around the neck of Mary Phagan, her clothes, her hair ribbon, this rag and this hat.

Q. Mr. Starnes, look at these chips.—A. They look like t[h]e ones taken up at the rear door.

At this point Attorney Rosser took up the recross examination.

Q. Couldn’t you swear these chips were the ones taken up at the rear door?—A. I couldn’t swear it, but I am reasonably sure.

Q. Are there any other matters about this case that you know about?

Dorsey objected, but the objection was overruled.

A. So far as I recall, there is nothing else that I remember.

Attorney Rosser then sat down and Solicitor Dorsey then said:

Defense Objects to Diagram.

“I want to present this diagram as evidence,” referring to the Bert Green diagram of the factory.

Attorney Rosser asked to look at it.

“No, it is not admissible,” he declared. “Let the jury retire so that we may discuss it.”

The jury retired.

“Black dotted lines indicate the course taken by the accused,” read Mr. Rosser. “It is a Jim Dandy, but we object to it. I really did not think that my friend Dorsey and Mr. Hooper would try to put this over me.”

“It has been hanging here where you could see it all day,” said Mr. Dorsey. “I understood you to say you accepted it. We are willing to cover up those words.”

“I want to raise a further objection,” said Mr. Arnold. “This is an argument for the theory of the prosecution. These dotted lines are too powerful an argument. I think the picture of the house is admissible, but anything that could be construed as an argument is not admissible.”

“I withdraw the picture for the present,” said Mr. Dorsey.

Court then adjourned until 9 o’clock Wednesday morning.

The crowd gathered early in front of the courthouse Tuesday morning. By 9 o’clock both sides of South Pryor street near its junction with Hunter were filled with people drawn by curiosity and the hope that they might have the good fortune to get admission to the small courtroom.

Taking a lesson from the first day, many of Frank’s relatives avoided the stares of the throng by entering through a side door.

Secrecy was preserved as to the State’s plans concerning Jim Conley, and for a time there were rumors that the negro, whose affidavits have been the most sensational feature of the case, might not be called at all. His name was not on the witness list, but Solicitor Dorsey said the omission was an error.

* * *

Sidebar

One Crowd as Bad as the Other, Says Lee of His Quizzers

Newt Lee, after being grilled by attorneys for more than four hours, said he was not tired, and all he wanted was a chew of tobacco. He was asked who he would rather have question him—the lawyers of [sic] the detectives.

“Mr. Rosser certainly is terrible,” he declared, “but I would just as soon have one crowd as the other.”

Another in our series of new transcriptions of contemporary articles on the Leo Frank case.

Atlanta Constitution
July 25^th, 1913

Negro Was Taken to Tower Without Knowledge of Beavers or Lanford.

Action is likely to be taken against Detective John Starnes and Pat Campbell, who Wednesday afternoon carried Jim Conley, the negro in the Phagan case, from police headquarters to the Tower without permission of either Chief Beavers or Chief Lanford.

When asked by a Constitution reporter Thursday afternoon what steps he would probably take against the detectives, Chief Beavers declined to talk. He inferred, however, that an investigation would likely result and that action would be taken.

Conley was taken from the station house prison shortly before noon Wednesday without the knowledge, it is said, of even Desk Sergeant Arch Holcombe. He was taken to the Tower for a four-hour examination in the cell of Newt Lee, which examination was promoted by Solicitor General Dorsey and his associate, Frank Hooper.

Neither Chief Knew.

Neither Chief Beavers nor Chief Lanford, it is stated, were aware of his absence from headquarters until informed by newspaper reporters who told the detective head. Lanford immediately conferred with Beavers with the result that the latter hurried to the jail, finding the prisoner with the detectives and attorneys.

Secrecy was thrown about the move, and, it is rumored, it was in an effort to prevent reporters from getting wind of the examination that Conley was spirited from the prison in such a mysterious manner. Starnes and Campbell say, however, that they did not inform their chiefs purely because neither happened to be at headquarters at the time.

If both Beavers and Lanford had been in the place, however, they state, they would have sought permission of each chief before removing the negro. Upon visiting the jail Wednesday afternoon, Beavers did not interfere in any manner with the examination.

Chief Lanford said to reporters Thursday that none of his men would ever again take such liberties, and Beavers declared that if Conley were to be removed in the future he would be fully aware of the move and would personally superintended it.

He was asked if action had been taken against either Starnes or Campbell or the turnkey, Tom Bayne, who was on duty at the time the negro was taken from his cell. His answer was:

No Action on Record.

“I can’t talk. No action, however, is on record.”

When asked if action would be taken, he said:

“I can’t help what you infer. I’m only stating facts.”

He would not state whether or not the detectives were guilty of insubordination in assuming authority which should rest only in the hands of department heads.

“I’d rather not talk,” was all he would say.

It is rumored around headquarters that a thorough investigation is being made, and that Starnes and Campbell will be compelled to make a report of their action.

No Action by Lanford.

Chief Lanford stated to a reporter last night that there probably would be no action taken against either Campbell or Starnes, as Conley is as much in charge of his attorney, William M. Smith, as of police headquarters.

Smith’s consent had been obtained for the removal to the jail, Lanford said, and the attorney had made an effort to communicate with both the detective head and Chief Beavers before carrying out the move. Inasmuch as Conley is held only as witness, and is in charge of his attorney, Starnes and Campbell, the chief declared, did nothing wrong in their act.